Transfer Rumour Joshua Zirkzee

[jazzy]

I would say, as goalscorers they are similar now. Kane is the better all round player, as you would expect from someone who is 28 over 23.

I doubt Calvert Lewin will reach the heights Kane did, but moving forward, as of today, they are similar. A 25 year old Kane is a better goal scorer than this DCL.

I really like DCL so I do not want to criticise him unduly.
However in my opinion Kane has by far better control , vision , appreciation / awareness of other players , finishing ability , shooting ( especially but not exclusively free kicks) and leadership.
I think DCL is an extremely promising player , with a brilliant attitude , good aerial ability and excellent athleticism with the strong possibility of further improvement.
I am delighted that DCL plays for us but would swop him for Kane in a heartbeat.
However football is all about opinions is it.

 

[ozerton]

Stop talking about DCL in the Baz & Ped thread

 

[Zatara]

We don't have two of the four best forwards under 24 in the world mate...

Who would you say is better than or equal to those 4 under 24 years old...at centre forward?

 

[Zatara]

This must be the best example of Evertonians over rating their own players.

Don't get me wrong I think that both DCL and Richarlison are very good players but to put them in the top 4 under 24 strikers is way off the mark.

Zat -if you are talking about the best young strikers playing in Europe....

Marcus Rashford 51 goals for United in 161 games and 11 for England in 40.

What about Lautoro Martinez 29 in 80 for Inter and 21 in 11 for Argentina.

Also consider Gabriel Jesus 43 in 110 for City and 18 in 41 for Brazil.

I'd also have Jadon Sancho in the top drawer along with Haaland and Mbappe - only 32 in 93 for Dortmund and 3 in 18 for England - mind you he mostly plays wide.

Timo Werner just misses out due to age but despite his current blip due to age he's up there.

For me DCL and Richarlison fall into the 2nd category of young strikers.

DCL's record 35 in 135 for the mighty Blues and 2 in 5 for England ( I acknowledge that there is more to his game than scoring but then the others have different attributes too ) is ok but not wonderful , but has shown a massive improvement recently.

Richarlison - 28 in 83 for us and 8 in 23 for Brazil.

In the same category I'd consider :

Maxi Gomez - 45 in 118 in La Liga and 3 in 19 for Uraguay.

Alexander Isak - only 13 in 52 for Sociedad but 5 in 18 for Sweden.

Moussa Dembele - 32 in 76 for Lyon.

Patrik Schick - 16 in 35 in Bundesliga and 9 in 22 for Czech Republic.

Luca Jovic - 5 in 11 for Serbia and 27 in 56 for Frankfurt ( although he bombed at Madrid )

And even Tammy Abraham 21 in 52 for Chelsea and 1 in 6 games for England.

Finally to show how money doesn't buy you everything

Viniscus Junior only 7 in 62 for Real Madrid depite a £38 million price tag and even better Ousmane Dembele costing Barca £100 million.

So in conclusion neither DCL or Richarlison would make my top 5 but both wouldget in to the top10 and for Everton to have 2 of the best young strikers in Europe in their team is incredible.

Lets have a look at that top category of young strikers then. Comparing apples with apples- number of league goals not scored via penalties over the last 2 years,
DCL: 13 & 11
Rashford: 11 & 7
Martinez: 13 & 9
Werner: 25 & 4
Jesus: 14 & 2
Sancho: 17 & 2

Not only does DCL deserve to be in that category, but in many ways he's right at the top of that list. Particularly when you factor in the lack of service he ha compared to others, and what he does for the team overall.

Alot of the players in these lists havent played centre forward...

I think the point was Haaland + Mbappe and then DCL would be somewhere up there and id say Richarlison at centre forward isnt far off.

Joao Felix seems to have vastly improved this season

Martinez has been overshadowed by Lukaku...

Maxi Gomez is class...

Vinicius and Dembele both wide players etc

Rashford is incredibly overrated...

Id like us to sign Maxi Gomez but Zirkzee seems to be a decent physical specimen to develop.

Not sure anyone else looks better than DCL/ Richarlison / Haaland and Mbappe...

 

[Tubey]

Who would you say is better than or equal to those 4 under 24 years old...at centre forward?

Here's the thing mate, there's no way of really knowing as there's only two standouts - Haaland and Mbappe.

But Moise Kean here was pure tripe yet at PSG you'd have people arguing he's top five for the age range. Truth is, he probably isn't, but you never really know unless he's in the right league at the right team at the right time. Another example - Mason Greenwood. Could be the next Henry, could be the next Federico Macheda; absolutely no way of knowing right now, but you'd put him "in the mix" in terms of potential.

Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison are simply in the mess of footballers around that age globally that are more or less the same type of prospect - they may approach world class level one day but so could fifty others, so putting them 3rd and 4th in the world now is just silly IMO.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Not happening this is it.

I don't think it is no but if we really want him there's still plenty of time. I'm just not sure we want him on Bayerns term.

 

[Philw]

"I don't think we can be much clearer" - then saying he was lucky to be in the position for game time when that's exactly what I responded to in my post lol this is amazing. He isn't lucky that he was in that position, he was put into it by the club who saw his potential.

This is why I could never be a teacher. I just can't cope with people who can not for some reason understand basic concepts. I'm really sorry that you don't seem to understand it, but it is actually melting my mind trying to work out ways to make it any clearer than has already been said.

Why isn't DCL to Haaland a good comparison to Kane and Ronaldo? To me Haaland is the next "Ronaldo level" and DCL is in the next bracket below him in his age group as one of the best around but not the best.

Because DCL is nowhere near as good as Haaland, whereas Kane is relatively close to Ronaldo. It's not difficult.

Interesting that we have all these in the prem that you can't name? For me I'd say Greenwood, Rashford, Werner (who might never even make it in the prem) who are comparable strikers quality/potential wise. For the best league in the world, it shows that he's right up there.

I mean, you've given three straight off the bat there, just from our league. There will be similar amounts I'm sure from other leagues. 3 from Spain. 3 from France. 3 from Germany, from Italy. Probably one or two from Holland. Maybe more from some of those leagues. That's 15-20 total.

But in the above, there is no reason why a player who is fouled is any more likely to get the penalty than one who isn't. So I personally don't really take too much notice of penalty stats. I remember we signed Andy Johnson one season, who scored loads of goals but most were pens. As soon as he didnt get pens here, he bombed.

Yeah, like I said it's very difficult to judge which ones they should get credit for or not. But fact is that they did score them, so they count.

As for the final points, you're completely wrong on that. Calvert Lewin makes his own chances far more than the others. He has far less chances made for him.

I mean I'm demonstrably not. Every header he scores is a chance created for him by someone else. Every one touch finish. How many times has he received the ball outside of the box, taken a player on and put it past the keeper? That is a chance created for himself, not getting on the end of crosses or sliding in a the back post to put away a pullback/sideways pass.

The evidence is very clear, that Calvert Lewin is amongst the best goalscorers in European football over the last couple of years.

He has 29 goals in the last 2 seasons. Vardy has 36. Salah has 40. Kane 43.

 

[Zatara]

Here's the thing mate, there's no way of really knowing as there's only two standouts - Haaland and Mbappe.

But Moise Kean here was pure tripe yet at PSG you'd have people arguing he's top five for the age range. Truth is, he probably isn't, but you never really know unless he's in the right league at the right team at the right time. Another example - Mason Greenwood. Could be the next Henry, could be the next Federico Macheda; absolutely no way of knowing right now, but you'd put him "in the mix" in terms of potential.

Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison are simply in the mess of footballers around that age globally that are more or less the same type of prospect - they may approach world class level one day but so could fifty others, so putting them 3rd and 4th in the world now is just silly IMO.

Greenwood is another one who (to me) looks like he'll become top notch.

Tbh though, if we just look at the premier league then id say u24 (the age group mentoned) it would be Richarlison / DCL / Greenwood who can/have played centre forward who look impressive.

Werner could he a different player next season after settling in...In not a fan of Rashford.

Struggling to think of any others...

 

[catcherintherye]

I mean I'm demonstrably not. Every header he scores is a chance created for him by someone else. Every one touch finish. How many times has he received the ball outside of the box, taken a player on and put it past the keeper? That is a chance created for himself, not getting on the end of crosses or sliding in a the back post to put away a pullback/sideways pass.

He has 29 goals in the last 2 seasons. Vardy has 36. Salah has 40. Kane 43.

Ok. I will clarify. The headers he scores, 90% of other strikers would not get into the position to score. He turns what would otherwise be relative aimless balls into the box into great opportunities. I can't think of many other strikers who score a lot of the headed goals he does.

So I'm afraid, to say he is the only player who doesn't make his own chances is infact "demonstrably" untrue.

By goalscorers, as we have established I am referring to league goals outide of penalties.

Salah has 24
Vardy has 24
Kane has 26
Calvert Lewin has 24

Only 1 of the above players has played for a team who has spent most of that time in the bottom half, and had demonstrably less chances than the others.

Calvert Lewin is matching those players, who are in their peak at age 21-23. The lad is absolutely world class. He also does a lot more for the team as a whole than Salah and Vardy.

You're welcome.

 

[Tubey]

Greenwood is another one who (to me) looks like he'll become top notch.

Tbh though, if we just look at the premier league then id say u24 (the age group mentoned) it would be Richarlison / DCL / Greenwood who can/have played centre forward who look impressive.

Werner could he a different player next season after settling in...In not a fan of Rashford.

Struggling to think of any others...

There could easily be someone age 22 you've not heard of now who could turn out to be stunning.

For example, 10 years ago Lewandowski had just moved to Dortmund from Lech and was having a mediocre first season. You wouldn't have had him in your top 10 prospects, but clearly, in retrospect, he should have been.

Ranking wonder kids is a fools game.

 

[everton1953]

Josh was seen in County Road this morning. Just thought I would break into the intellectual arguments and finer points being discussed above on the Joshua thread.

 

[seer]

Christ, why does every thread in this forum turn into an irrelevant argument.

Is he joining or not????

 

[Tubey]

Christ, why does every thread in this forum turn into an irrelevant argument.

Is he joining or not????

Depends. We can't negotiate like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell 'em stories that don't go anywhere - like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Give me five bees for a quarter, you'd say.

Now where were we? Oh yeah: the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

 

[Goat]

Greenwood is another one who (to me) looks like he'll become top notch.

Tbh though, if we just look at the premier league then id say u24 (the age group mentoned) it would be Richarlison / DCL / Greenwood who can/have played centre forward who look impressive.

Werner could he a different player next season after settling in...In not a fan of Rashford.

Struggling to think of any others...

Not convinced that Greenwood will ever become much personally.

I mean Rashford is 5 times the player.

 

[Lanolin]

Christ, why does every thread in this forum turn into an irrelevant argument.

Is he joining or not????

Because literally all there is to talk about on him is two tweets about the possibility of him coming and a youtube compilation of his highlights. It's either radio silence or a bit of irrelevant chatter, really.