Kenwright leaving rumour

[riddick]

No of course not but I think he would have sorted the problem.

Jags, Howard, Barry and Baines were finished. With spending the money on Lukaku he couldn't replace them all at once.

But Rom and Stones would have been sold and I think he would have done a better job rebuilding with that money.

He couldn't have done much worse.

Look Martinez wasn't perfect but in hindsight perhaps we didn't give him enough time.

My real problem though was the choice of the people to replace him. How he ever thought Walsh and Koeman were up to the job I will never know.

He thought Alcaraz was a good defender mate. He never practiced defending in training. What makes you think he could have turned it around?

 

[ToffeeTim]

lollollol

He was given almost 2 full seasons and spent more money than any Everton manager before him.

lollollollol

He was given one game shy of THREE seasons goat.

Mad.

 

[joey_macmo]

The talk of Martinez’s cup record being great makes me laugh, he only ever beat 3 premier league teams in the cup over his 3 seasons.

 

[Toffeelover]

I read the last two pages and none of it was to do with BK going!!

Per rumour, also Elstone and Woods saying bye, bye.

 

[bluestevon]

Not used to seeing you post absolute rubbish mate, think you need a break!

Nah mate, i have very strong opinions on old Bill, maybe some disagree that's their prerogative.

 

[roydo]

I read the last two pages and none of it was to do with BK going!!

Per rumour, also Elstone and Woods saying bye, bye.

If Kenwright is off, to me, it makes sense that Moshiri is confident enough in all things Stadium wise to exercise his Buy options on his, and Woods etc, shares.

And there is that breakfast meeting/presentation thing next week isnt there?

 

[Toffeelover]

If Kenwright is off, to me, it makes sense that Moshiri is confident enough in all things Stadium wise to exercise his Buy options on his, and Woods etc, shares.

And there is that breakfast meeting/presentation thing next week isnt there?

Is there, some sort of announcement is it? --- staying at GP!!!lol, Usmanov is taking over

 

[Toffe3m4n]

lollollol

He was given almost 2 full seasons and spent more money than any Everton manager before him.

lollollollol

3 seasons mate.

 

[Toffe3m4n]

Let me paint you all a picture of how the last 2 windows would have gone if Moshiri wasnt around :

Summer 2016.

Everton sell John Stones to Man City for 25m, we cant get anymore due to the bank demanding we pay our overdraft
This money is then used to pay off our overdraft
Lukaku demands to be sold
Everton receive 45m from Chelsea, we cant get anymore due to us falling behind on our other outstanding debt
This money is then used to pay of our outstanding debt
Goodison Park falls down to due to not having cladding keeping it up, Everton will now play all home matches at Prenton Park
Due to the 5 year contract given to Martinez, we cant afford to sack him
Ross Barkley is sold to Newcastle for 5m plus Joey Barton
Without our better players and having no money to replace them, Martinez finishes the season in 20th, with no wins all season

Summer 2017

Everton prepare for life in The Championship by selling every first team player who earns more than 25k a week
Most weeks we struggle to field 11 players and the FA ask serious questions regarding our ability to finish the season
In December 2017 Everton are expelled from the FA league system and its records expunged from history

Summer 2018

Everton AFC is formed by the fans, Adversus and Davek are appointed joint Chairman as Everton enter the Lancashire Sunday League

My heart slowed right down as I was reading that.

 

[Kever10]

Koeman’s recruitment may be stoking revisionist fires but if you want to see what really started the rot it was the dismantling of Moyes’ top 6 squad

Talk about revisionist and then throw all of that in. Insane.

Think what you want about Martinez time here, but let's get a few facts straight here.

The squad Moyes left us with was aging and coming to an end of a cycle. He knew this and knew it would be another 5 year rebuilding job, so he couldn't wait to get out, regardless of the draw of Utd, and ironically enough, took over an other squad from a manager who knew the exact same thing.

In Moyes squad he left us with, let's look where they all are now, just less than 5 years later) :

Howard (USA),
Hibbert (retired),
Jagielka and Baines (definitely finished now, arguably were then),
Distin (retired),
Neville (literally retired that season),
Osman (retired),
Gibson (finished),
Pienaar (retired),

Outside of those, we had:

Fellaini (sold to raise cash),
Stones (Sold to raise cash, never played under Moyes),
Barkley (less said the better, barely played under Moyes),
Mirallas (waste of space),
Oviedo (horrific injury, never fully recovered, still think he's a better option than Baines though),
Jelavic (peaked, never recovered, China),
Anichebe (much maligned, China),
Gueye, the other one (LOL),
Naismith (much maligned, Championship),
Duffy (barely played under Moyes, Brighton),
Mucha (barely played under Moyes, god knows).

And then, his best ever signing:

Coleman - who, incidentally, improved massively under Martinez.

So that debunks this "amazing squad" he left us with.

Next point,

and bringing in players like:

Mcgeady
Cleverley
Robles
Alcaraz
Etoo
Artsu
Kone

How much money is wasted there in transfers and wages?

We signed all of them for less than we sold Naismith. Wages, maybe, but you tell me how u can operate a squad without spending wages, and I've no doubt you will be headhunted as our new manager. If its a quality issue, then look again at how much we spent to recruit them, and as has been proven this year, you sign top quality cheap players, their wages increase 10 fold, and you end up paying Sandro £120k per week.

Lukaku, Holgate and Funes Mori were good buys. Barry was a good loan but then indulged too much. Besic wasn’t managed properly by successive managers and McCarthy is a crock. Lennon, Deulofeu and Niasse are/were ok.

Harsh to label Mccarthy as a crock, regardless how true it has become. He wasn't a crock when signed him, that's just the risk of transfers. I still think he was a really good signing, especially at half the cost of Fellaini then and Schneiderlin now. All of those players, plus the ones named earlier, cost us less combined than we spent on Bolasie, Keane, Schneiderlin and Williams (not even going near Sigurdsson).

After years of excellent recruitment by Moyes building a strong squad Martinez dismantled it in place of 4 stars surrounded by dross. Koeman then completed the hatchet job by selling the 4 stars and replacing them with muck. Two incompetent fools one after another.

Its true, Moyes did have years of good recruitment mixed with his own fair amount of absolute Dross, but was afforded backing in the face of adversity, and he did an amazing job of managing expectations of some the most deluded and bizarrely privileged fans in the country. The amount of times I hear how we should be doing this, or should be winning that is astounding. We get laughed at for it. I'm not saying we shouldn't aspire to it, we just need to earn it, and the truth is, with the way we go about things, from top to bottom, including fans, it's not going to happen.

One of the more common phrases I hear nowadays, is this "That's why we can't have nice things". It's usually snarky, in relation to Niasse being selected ahead of Sandro, or why Vlasic isn't 1st name on team sheet, but it goes both ways. We had a great season under Martinez, and instead of getting behind them, and anticipating a 2nd season bump, in conjunction with an added European schedule, we got on his and the players case at the 1st sign of trouble and ruined the relationship as quickly as it began. His tenure was tainted before xmas in season 2, and from that point, it was only ever going to be a matter of time before he was relieved.

Personally, I think the good he did, beyond the surface level, like the youth setup, making people believe again, bringing former players back into the fold, being instrumental in the changes at Finch Farm, developing Lukaku, Barkley and Stones into Players that we sold for almost £150m, getting us to cup semi finals. All of these things were important, and I believe, in time, and with patience, he'd have got things right. It's easy to say he wouldn't and that he'd have relegated us, because that's what happened with Wigan right? But whenever I hear this, it always bothers me, because it's like people don't understand it is/was in his best interests to succeed as well. People act like it was sabotage, and not a fluid learning curve that people have to go through, including Moyes btw, who started as a gungho attacking manager, often playing 3 up top, before being stung and becoming very pragmatic.

But again, while he may have only dreamt of the money on offer now, a scenario where he often fluffed his lines anyway, he was afforded something much more valuable. Time, patience and backing.

So yeah, @LiamG, I totally agree with you.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Talk about revisionist and then throw all of that in. Insane.

Think what you want about Martinez time here, but let's get a few facts straight here.

The squad Moyes left us with was aging and coming to an end of a cycle. He knew this and knew it would be another 5 year rebuilding job, so he couldn't wait to get out, regardless of the draw of Utd, and ironically enough, took over an other squad from a manager who knew the exact same thing.

In Moyes squad he left us with, let's look where they all are now, just less than 5 years later) :

Howard (USA),
Hibbert (retired),
Jagielka and Baines (definitely finished now, arguably were then),
Distin (retired),
Neville (literally retired that season),
Osman (retired),
Gibson (finished),
Pienaar (retired),

Outside of those, we had:

Fellaini (sold to raise cash),
Stones (Sold to raise cash, never played under Moyes),
Barkley (less said the better, barely played under Moyes),
Mirallas (waste of space),
Oviedo (horrific injury, never fully recovered, still think he's a better option than Baines though),
Jelavic (peaked, never recovered, China),
Anichebe (much maligned, China),
Gueye, the other one (LOL),
Naismith (much maligned, Championship),
Duffy (barely played under Moyes, Brighton),
Mucha (barely played under Moyes, god knows).

And then, his best ever signing:

Coleman - who, incidentally, improved massively under Martinez.

So that debunks this "amazing squad" he left us with.

Next point,



We signed all of them for less than we sold Naismith. Wages, maybe, but you tell me how u can operate a squad without spending wages, and I've no doubt you will be headhunted as our new manager. If its a quality issue, then look again at how much we spent to recruit them, and as has been proven this year, you sign top quality cheap players, their wages increase 10 fold, and you end up paying Sandro £120k per week.



Harsh to label Mccarthy as a crock, regardless how true it has become. He wasn't a crock when signed him, that's just the risk of transfers. I still think he was a really good signing, especially at half the cost of Fellaini then and Schneiderlin now. All of those players, plus the ones named earlier, cost us less combined than we spent on Bolasie, Keane, Schneiderlin and Williams (not even going near Sigurdsson).



Its true, Moyes did have years of good recruitment mixed with his own fair amount of absolute Dross, but was afforded backing in the face of adversity, and he did an amazing job of managing expectations of some the most deluded and bizarrely privileged fans in the country. The amount of times I hear how we should be doing this, or should be winning that is astounding. We get laughed at for it. I'm not saying we shouldn't aspire to it, we just need to earn it, and the truth is, with the way we go about things, from top to bottom, including fans, it's not going to happen.

One of the more common phrases I hear nowadays, is this "That's why we can't have nice things". It's usually snarky, in relation to Niasse being selected ahead of Sandro, or why Vlasic isn't 1st name on team sheet, but it goes both ways. We had a great season under Martinez, and instead of getting behind them, and anticipating a 2nd season bump, in conjunction with an added European schedule, we got on his and the players case at the 1st sign of trouble and ruined the relationship as quickly as it began. His tenure was tainted before xmas in season 2, and from that point, it was only ever going to be a matter of time before he was relieved.

Personally, I think the good he did, beyond the surface level, like the youth setup, making people believe again, bringing former players back into the fold, being instrumental in the changes at Finch Farm, developing Lukaku, Barkley and Stones into Players that we sold for almost £150m, getting us to cup semi finals. All of these things were important, and I believe, in time, and with patience, he'd have got things right. It's easy to say he wouldn't and that he'd have relegated us, because that's what happened with Wigan right? But whenever I hear this, it always bothers me, because it's like people don't understand it is/was in his best interests to succeed as well. People act like it was sabotage, and not a fluid learning curve that people have to go through, including Moyes btw, who started as a gun holder attacking manager, often playing 3 up top, before being stung and becoming very pragmatic.

But again, while he may have only dreamt of the money on offer now, a scenario where he often fluffed his lines anyway, he was afforded something much more valuable. Time, patience and backing.

So yeah, @LiamG, I totally agree with you.

Sorry mate I honestly don’t even know what to do with that, nor do I have the effort to respond. If people think Martinez did a good job after two bottom half finishes despite having Lukaku Barkley and Stones then so be it.

 

[roydo]

Is there, some sort of announcement is it? --- staying at GP!!!lol, Usmanov is taking over

Some invites sent out for a breakfast do of some sort.

Have my own idea what it might be, but probably miles off. As in, if I am right, 100% nailed on others would have pipped up by now.

 

[Kever10]

Sorry mate I honestly don’t even know what to do with that, nor do I have the effort to respond. If people think Martinez did a good job after two bottom half finishes despite having Lukaku Barkley and Stones then so be it.

Read it perhaps? What else would you do with it? Anyway, whatever, I was just putting another opinion across from the generic "Rabble rabble Martinez was a clown Rabble... He'd have turned us to Sunday league Rabble... He deserves no credit Rabble... Spanish Fraud Rabble".

As for doing a good job, it's all relative really isn't it. He didn't excel in seasons 2 & 3 by standards of his own 1st year, but you could argue they'd be a step in the right direction after this season.

Ho hum, its all hypothetical now anyway.

 

[Azza]

Wonder if Keith Harris will get the boot as well.

 

[Yarrgh]

When he goes, I hop

Bill will never be forgiven for causing us to miss out on Kings Dock.

We could be potentially where city are.

We'd be beyond where City could ever be.