I always said Kirkby was [Poor language removed].
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Dom1878
Player Valuation: £60m
Onslow
Player Valuation: £500k
The impact of KEIOC is debatable. I think this scheme was going to get called in regardless of the internal Civil War it created within our family.
This being said, I don't understand the euphoria of some on this thread. Kirkby wasn't the end of Everton as we know it. It was a deal that would've given us the chance to have a new ground without having to plunge the level of funds Arsenal, Liverpool, the FA, and others have sunk into constructing new stadiums. It was a foundation that we could've built and evolved out of as a football club. After the last several years of attempts to find a location in Liverpool, this was a risk worth taking.
I don't trust the Council to give Everton the kind of allowances they've offered their pets on the RS side of Stanley Park. Build on green space? Only a problem if your club wears blue. Need additional time to gather funds? No problem for this Council so long as the club wears red.
We are staring straight at a future without a trustworthy partner, with a stadium development that will end up costing us enough money to make Bill Gates whince in pain (If the LCC ever allow us to get that far.). In short, we're fast becoming the large version of Luton Town: stuck in an outmoded ground with a governing body that would like nothing better than to see the club rot.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. The only real way out is to do this on our own and piece-by-piece at Goodison. We need to talk to a club like Fulham who have faced this very predicament at their ground, have taken a gradual approach to modernisation, and have turned their stadium into a ground offering increasing benefits as it maintains its historic appeal.
There isn't anything in the rule book of building a stadium that says we have to have a New Wembley, an Ashburton Grove, or even a Man City-style ground. Why can't we redevelop Goodison Park in a "retro" fashion? Add the modern revenue-generators and retain the old look and feel.
We can do it if a certain Council will give us some of the freedom of action they've given RS.
This being said, I don't understand the euphoria of some on this thread. Kirkby wasn't the end of Everton as we know it. It was a deal that would've given us the chance to have a new ground without having to plunge the level of funds Arsenal, Liverpool, the FA, and others have sunk into constructing new stadiums. It was a foundation that we could've built and evolved out of as a football club. After the last several years of attempts to find a location in Liverpool, this was a risk worth taking.
I don't trust the Council to give Everton the kind of allowances they've offered their pets on the RS side of Stanley Park. Build on green space? Only a problem if your club wears blue. Need additional time to gather funds? No problem for this Council so long as the club wears red.
We are staring straight at a future without a trustworthy partner, with a stadium development that will end up costing us enough money to make Bill Gates whince in pain (If the LCC ever allow us to get that far.). In short, we're fast becoming the large version of Luton Town: stuck in an outmoded ground with a governing body that would like nothing better than to see the club rot.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. The only real way out is to do this on our own and piece-by-piece at Goodison. We need to talk to a club like Fulham who have faced this very predicament at their ground, have taken a gradual approach to modernisation, and have turned their stadium into a ground offering increasing benefits as it maintains its historic appeal.
There isn't anything in the rule book of building a stadium that says we have to have a New Wembley, an Ashburton Grove, or even a Man City-style ground. Why can't we redevelop Goodison Park in a "retro" fashion? Add the modern revenue-generators and retain the old look and feel.
We can do it if a certain Council will give us some of the freedom of action they've given RS.
trebilcock66
Player Valuation: £8m
Well said, Onslow. Thanks for putting a balanced and realistic assessment of the situation.
I've been appalled at some of the posts I've seen on this subject. Name calling. Belittling the opinions of others just because they've made fewer than a hundred posts. I'm not on the inner circle of this forum. I don't know the first names of the mods but I think I read GOT saying yesterday that people who are pleased that Kirkby is getting called in should be ignored. Not on really.
Perhaps the worst outcome of this whole story is the division that sprang up between evertonians.
I'll confess to mixed feelings about this outcome. Part of me is relieved. part of me is very apprehensive that we'll lose out financially.
Can't understand the pleasure some get from this decision, Onslow?
The relief comes from pure sentimentality. I started watching in 1960 at the age of four in the street end, propped on the old white wall behind the goal. I watched all the teams from then to now with all the triumphs and disasters. So I'm more than attached to Goodison - it's part of me and who I am. Uncles, my father and my grandfather left part of themselves at the Old Lady. My son - I had hoped - will do the same. I'm not going to apologise for regretting the possible passing of that story
I know that money talks these days and we have to generate more funds to compete but my sadness at the idea of leaving GP is based purely on my emotional ties to the place.
I also recognise that others are more pragmatic than me. Or are younger and have fewer happy memories tied up in the place. So they are perhaps more excited than me at the thought of our new stadium. I hope that I can coexist peacefully with all those shades of opinion - we're all evertonians after all.
So don't go bonkers if I resurrect an old idea. Our ground move appears delayed at best. Liverpool are apparently struggling to fund their grandiose plans. So I have a dream (this is my Martin Luther King moment). I dream of a state-of-the-art ground with Prince Rupert's Tower in one corner and a Liver Bird in the other. On consecutive weekends, two teams with a long history of passionate yet friendly rivalry do battle on the pitch. For over a hundred years, they've coexisted within yards of each other - now they share the same home.
If that's to become a reality both clubs - and their supporters - will have to GROW UP. This solution is more economical, greener and more balanced. What's more, it will preserve the unique closeness of the two clubs - a thing worth keeping in this day and age.
What's the chances of this happening? Almost zero, I fear, but I can hope.
Disagree with me if you wish. But I'm not a 'melt' or a tosser. I'm an Evertonian to my fingertips, just like you.
uknightbreed
Player Valuation: £35m
in gots defence - it was people who were 'celebrating' the kirkby call in should be ignored..............i back that 100%
it was nothing to celebrate even if it was a victory , it was 1 step forward for anti-kirkby but 2 steps back for the club on a whole.
its like having an itch on my foot i cant reach , im not going to celebrate the itch going if my leg has been blown off .
it was nothing to celebrate even if it was a victory , it was 1 step forward for anti-kirkby but 2 steps back for the club on a whole.
its like having an itch on my foot i cant reach , im not going to celebrate the itch going if my leg has been blown off .
how about, you've got an itchy foot, you can't afford to get it sorted, so your mate offers to blow your foot off for free, only to be told he's not allowed.
You've still got an itchy foot, but maybe you can start looking for a more sustainable solution.
A lot of people are relieved, there's no excuse for the wind up merchants, but the relief is palpable.
Like it or not, there really are 2 sides to this debate, and differences of opinion are inevitable. The key is to endeavour to treat those on all sides of the debate with respect. This means trying not to tell them their opinion doesn't matter, or that they should f#ck off somewhere else, because they have a differing opinion. It also means being a little more sensitive with regards to the inevitable disappointment of those who didn't get the decision they wanted.
This isn't aimed at you, Nightbreed, by the way, it just seemed a sensible point to butt in
The point he is on about is when I told Ghost not to bother arguing with a member with regards to the whole 'out of the city' argument.
In my opinion, that argument isn't really an argument and as I said earlier, I wouldn't waste my time discussing the move with people who have that opinion.
I mean, celebrating the call in simply because Kirkby is 4 miles in the wrong direction from Kirkby, is a bit silly in my opinion. Fair enough if you have other reasons, but to use that argument alone...
kenada_blue
Welcome to Barcelonaton FC
My hangup about people celebrating the call-in lies more with people not realising how much more its going to cost the club as they re-evaluate everything and not the reasons they have about why the move is wrong.
If we carry on with the move (because it hasnt been pulled yet) in 18months time its an extra £30mill (based on what the Independent says) ontop of what the valuations are now.
Thats a worry if its right. The cost of carrying on.
If we carry on with the move (because it hasnt been pulled yet) in 18months time its an extra £30mill (based on what the Independent says) ontop of what the valuations are now.
Thats a worry if its right. The cost of carrying on.
And as I have said from word go, I think the club will proceed with the move regardless of the call in as there simply is no alternative.
If thats the case, all those who celebrated the call in may well have effectively been celebrating the government (or LCC......) taking £30m of the clubs money.
again we're down to opinions... perhaps we've just not looked properly as we were given the easiest (but not neccessarily the best) option on a plate.
:huh:
We have been looking since the Peter Johnson days Gordon. If we haven't looked properly by now, we never will.
I mean, we still have Warren Bradley muttering about a shared stadium, that alone shows LCC have no viable option.
Unless a mad billionaire with nothing better to do with his money/time decides to buy us for a laugh, we will proceed with the Kirkby option, but now, instead of it costing 78m, it will cost £100+m.
Yep, and every time, the other option of actually turning what we already have into what we want and need is there, but is put in the 'too difficult' (BK), 'not shiny enough' (against KD - fair enough), or 'not enough in it for me' (all of the PJ moves) drawers.
If we're faced with Kirkby costing us £100M+, then surely the already fragile and extremely marginal business case is just no longer viable nor justifiable.
So we cut our cloth accordingly, come on, sing along, I'm sure you all know the words by now... "Redevelop GP Stand By Stand In A Phased Approach, Allowing The Development To Be Partially Self Funding, While Exposing The Club To Less Risk And Lower Maximum Indebtedness In These Financially Uncertain Times" ... very good, I'm so proud
Before you start, it's been shown that with careful fixture scheduling (away games first and last 4 games of the season) we need only drop below a 40,000 capacity for a handful of matches throughout the entire Project. Meanwhile attendances can start to rise, Corporate Facilities can be added, and the Grand Old Lady can become what we need her to be. Best of all, we can do it at a pace appropriate to the Club.
It's difficult, but according to Honda, that makes it worth doing (cracking ad that)
EDIT:
To summarise, cheer up, it needn't be the end of the [Poor language removed] world
kenada_blue
Welcome to Barcelonaton FC
Er...quick question cos I aint read up on it as much...
What happens to the surround area? Wouldnt that need to be bought all around the ground to expand upon as the stadium grows outwards?
Just asked cos isnt that why the [Poor language removed] cant expand their ground? Unless I've missed out something.
What happens to the surround area? Wouldnt that need to be bought all around the ground to expand upon as the stadium grows outwards?
Just asked cos isnt that why the [Poor language removed] cant expand their ground? Unless I've missed out something.
the school is allegedly ear marked for closure.
By moving the pitch slightly (6metres or so) towards the Park End there's scope for a better Profiled Street end once the new double Tiered Park End with its boxes is up. We may not even need the Street End houses.
Once the end Stands are done, then you can look at purchasing the handful of houses that would need to be removed to allow the Bullens to Bridge / Oversail the road.
The new Bullens Stand would have all of the facilities currently found in the Main Stand (Players Lounge, changing room, Directors Box, Corporate facilities etc etc) to smooth the transition for when we upgrade / replace the Main Stand.
We may even want to look at reprofiling Goodison Road to allow a fully squared off Stand.
Look, all of that's just off the top of my head, there have been a few good studies done in the past that I think are still on Toffeeweb... in fact if you're interested, here's a good place to start http://www.toffeeweb.com/club/goodison/hughes_redev.asp
By moving the pitch slightly (6metres or so) towards the Park End there's scope for a better Profiled Street end once the new double Tiered Park End with its boxes is up. We may not even need the Street End houses.
Once the end Stands are done, then you can look at purchasing the handful of houses that would need to be removed to allow the Bullens to Bridge / Oversail the road.
The new Bullens Stand would have all of the facilities currently found in the Main Stand (Players Lounge, changing room, Directors Box, Corporate facilities etc etc) to smooth the transition for when we upgrade / replace the Main Stand.
We may even want to look at reprofiling Goodison Road to allow a fully squared off Stand.
Look, all of that's just off the top of my head, there have been a few good studies done in the past that I think are still on Toffeeweb... in fact if you're interested, here's a good place to start http://www.toffeeweb.com/club/goodison/hughes_redev.asp
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