Kirkby Called In.

[chicoazul]

Well said, Onslow. Thanks for putting a balanced and realistic assessment of the situation.

I've been appalled at some of the posts I've seen on this subject. Name calling. Belittling the opinions of others just because they've made fewer than a hundred posts. I'm not on the inner circle of this forum. I don't know the first names of the mods but I think I read GOT saying yesterday that people who are pleased that Kirkby is getting called in should be ignored. Not on really.

Perhaps the worst outcome of this whole story is the division that sprang up between evertonians.

I'll confess to mixed feelings about this outcome. Part of me is relieved. part of me is very apprehensive that we'll lose out financially.

Can't understand the pleasure some get from this decision, Onslow?

The relief comes from pure sentimentality. I started watching in 1960 at the age of four in the street end, propped on the old white wall behind the goal. I watched all the teams from then to now with all the triumphs and disasters. So I'm more than attached to Goodison - it's part of me and who I am. Uncles, my father and my grandfather left part of themselves at the Old Lady. My son - I had hoped - will do the same. I'm not going to apologise for regretting the possible passing of that story

I know that money talks these days and we have to generate more funds to compete but my sadness at the idea of leaving GP is based purely on my emotional ties to the place.

I also recognise that others are more pragmatic than me. Or are younger and have fewer happy memories tied up in the place. So they are perhaps more excited than me at the thought of our new stadium. I hope that I can coexist peacefully with all those shades of opinion - we're all evertonians after all.

So don't go bonkers if I resurrect an old idea. Our ground move appears delayed at best. Liverpool are apparently struggling to fund their grandiose plans. So I have a dream (this is my Martin Luther King moment). I dream of a state-of-the-art ground with Prince Rupert's Tower in one corner and a Liver Bird in the other. On consecutive weekends, two teams with a long history of passionate yet friendly rivalry do battle on the pitch. For over a hundred years, they've coexisted within yards of each other - now they share the same home.

If that's to become a reality both clubs - and their supporters - will have to GROW UP. This solution is more economical, greener and more balanced. What's more, it will preserve the unique closeness of the two clubs - a thing worth keeping in this day and age.

What's the chances of this happening? Almost zero, I fear, but I can hope.

Disagree with me if you wish. But I'm not a 'melt' or a tosser. I'm an Evertonian to my fingertips, just like you.

Melt.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

the school is allegedly ear marked for closure.

By moving the pitch slightly (6metres or so) towards the Park End there's scope for a better Profiled Street end once the new double Tiered Park End with its boxes is up. We may not even need the Street End houses.
Once the end Stands are done, then you can look at purchasing the handful of houses that would need to be removed to allow the Bullens to Bridge / Oversail the road.
The new Bullens Stand would have all of the facilities currently found in the Main Stand (Players Lounge, changing room, Directors Box, Corporate facilities etc etc) to smooth the transition for when we upgrade / replace the Main Stand.
We may even want to look at reprofiling Goodison Road to allow a fully squared off Stand.

Look, all of that's just off the top of my head, there have been a few good studies done in the past that I think are still on Toffeeweb... in fact if you're interested, here's a good place to start http://www.toffeeweb.com/club/goodison/hughes_redev.asp

Yeah ok mate.

Dunford, Birch, Wyness, Elstone etc... they're all wrong. We dont all need this arsing about, we can just 'do up' Goodison.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

Yeah ok mate.

Dunford, Birch, Wyness, Elstone etc... they're all wrong. We dont all need this arsing about, we can just 'do up' Goodison.

or would you prefer to ground-share?

 

[HalewoodBlue]

or would you prefer to ground-share?

Why would anyone want that dennis?

 

[HalewoodBlue]

Interesting percentage of the vote in this thread, i dont think it would be the same on the peoples forum somehow but GoT has always been more sensible

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

Why would anyone want that dennis?

i'm sure you've heard most, if not all, the arguments for & against hb.

 

[HalewoodBlue]

i'm sure you've heard most, if not all, the arguments for & against hb.

Its all against for me, cant think of a single good reason for it

 

[gordonjblair]

Yeah ok mate.

Dunford, Birch, Wyness, Elstone etc... they're all wrong. We dont all need this arsing about, we can just 'do up' Goodison.

come on, Birch was here for what, a week? He might be good, but moving us in that window may be a bit ambitious.
Dunford did ... not much of anything in his time here, certainly didn't seem the type to tackle the logistics of the redevelopment project
We all know Keith's hobby was ground moves, that's why he was brought in, that's why he's going to Mallorca - they're just about to put planning in for a stadium in a Walmart carpark just outside Miami... he certainly wasn't going to be 'doing up' Goodison.
As for Elstone, just fresh into a caretaker role he wants to be made permanent, in the immediate run up to the decision being made public, what else is the man going to do other than shout from the rooftops about how silly it all is because we should be 'doing up' Goodison.

please

Interesting percentage of the vote in this thread, i dont think it would be the same on the peoples forum somehow but GoT has always been more sensible

You're right, it is interesting, I think it says a lot about the deal that, on what has always been a very pro-board, pro-move forum, the vote is so close.

 

[HalewoodBlue]

You're right, it is interesting, I think it says a lot about the deal that, on what has always been a very pro-board, pro-move forum, the vote is so close.

60-30%? Hardly close and dont forget we have a number of fishy site members coming on here now as well

 

[GrandOldTeam]

come on, Birch was here for what, a week? He might be good, but moving us in that window may be a bit ambitious.

Yes, and in that week all he spoke about, like every chairman and ceo since what seems forever was the importance of moving away from Goodison;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/e/everton/3768651.stm

New Everton chief executive Trevor Birch insists they must quit Goodison Park to revive their fortunes. Everton failed to go ahead with a move to King's Dock, while the groundshare option may be scuppered by Liverpool's current plans for a new stadium.
The club is wrestling with debts and Birch says a move must be considered.
"If we do not find or share a ground which gives us access to additional revenue, it's unlikely we will be a big club again in the near future.
Birch admitted he had not yet investigated the possibility having only just taken over from the departed Michael Dunford.
He said: "I have not seen the plans, I've not seen the reports or the feasibility of it.
"All I am saying is that you have to keep an open mind, if that is the only alternative to Everton generating further revenue.
"Remember there isn't a textbook on how to generate further revenue, and I am open to all suggestions."

Dunford did ... not much of anything in his time here, certainly didn't seem the type to tackle the logistics of the redevelopment project

Oh deary me... I give up...

Just so you know, Dunford 'tackled' literally every aspect with regards to a new/redeveloped stadium. New ground (kings dock....), feasibility study into redeveloping Goodison, and even sharing with Liverpool;

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"There has been a great deal of speculation recently in local and national press concerning the ‘proposals’ for a new stadium in the city of Liverpool. Much of the discussion has been centred around the possibility of Everton and Liverpool Football Clubs sharing the site in a way that it is much more common abroad than it is in this country – the San Siro in Milan is obviously the most well-known example.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]About a week ago the club had an approach from Bryan Gray, the chairman of North West Development Agency to see whether Everton and Liverpool would meet to discuss the general principal of the two clubs potentially sharing a stadium. We’ve sat around the table, we’ve had one meeting, and we discussed whether or not both clubs would consider that option. The issue is obviously a highly sensitive one and, as such, both clubs are receptive to discussing it, without making any commitment whatsoever. We came away from that meeting having made our position abundantly clear, as indeed did Liverpool. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Liverpool’s stadium plans are far more advanced than ours. They are about to submit a planning application during the first week in October for their new stadium and if all goes well they would be hoping to be on site, building that stadium by May 2004. So if something is to happen, the two parties have got to come together very quickly and agree the way forward. The conduit for that has got to be the North West Development Agency and Liverpool City Council. I think it’s everybody’s wish to see some sort of world-class football stadium that would benefit the City of Liverpool but as you would expect there is an abundance of non-footballing aspects to consider. There was some concern from the Regional Development Agency that there was going to be a request for grant aid, particularly towards the infrastructure costs, which could be considerable if we’re talking about a 55 to 60,000 capacity stadium.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maybe there was a thought that if the Liverpool FC project was going to receive central government funding then there would be pressure, quite rightly, being exerted by Everton to receive a similar sort of funding package when we either re-develop Goodison or move to a new stadium of our own. Given that there is not a bottomless pit of money it was sensible for the Regional Development Agency to bring the two parties together and that’s all we’ve done at the moment. Everybody shares the same aims and ambitions. The authorities want the two football clubs to be successful but this is probably the last stop saloon as far as any opportunity for the two clubs to share a stadium. I believe it was mooted some fifteen years ago, but it came to nothing. Now with the Capital of Culture bid on the horizon in 2008 it’s an opportunity for both clubs to finally discuss the matter in earnest and decide if there is any common ground.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Leaving out, if you can, all the passion and the traditional arguments that Evertonians and Liverpudlians will use, if you were a neutral, it does seem rather senseless to have two clubs going off in their own direction potentially investing upwards of £150 million on two separate schemes when, as we’ve seen in Italy, a shared scheme can work for two footballing giants. The original initiative for talks had to come from a third party. I think it would have been most unlikely that either football club would have come and asked the other to sit around the table to discuss it, but the Regional Development Agency and Liverpool City Council have said: ‘Look, before we go any further, can we at least once and for all investigate whether there is any mileage in a ground share proposition?’ There are mountains to climb, huge mountains.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Liverpool have got their own agenda, we respect that, and they’ll do whatever they think is right for Liverpool Football Club and make no mistake about it, the Board of Directors at Goodison will need a lot of convincing that the economic arguments are so strong that Everton would wish to share a stadium with Liverpool. There are certain issues that are, as far as we’re concerned, non-negotiable. I won’t go into those, but all true-minded Evertonians, I am certain, will know what I am talking about. There are certain issues, which the board are very passionate about, but we owe it to everybody to at least sit round the table and explore the possibilities and that’s all we’re doing.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Whether it comes to anything remains to be seen, but at least the local authorities are bringing the two sides together and are saying: “Come on now, is there any way this can work? If there isn’t - then that’s fine.” Liverpool will do what they want to do and we will make a decision as to what we want to do in the future. Whether that be staying here to re-develop or move to an alternative site, we will have to wait and see. We do have other options and we will still consider them, but given the speed in which the Liverpool scheme is now progressing we’ve got a one-off opportunity now to discuss it. If the eventual outcome is that we go our own way, then we will remain as we are - two massive football clubs in one great city, but it just made sense to at least have a discussion.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We don’t want supporters from either side of the city saying: “Well, are we going to have blue seats or are we going to have red seats?” We’re not into that detail at all, in fact that wasn’t even discussed. It would have been very narrow-minded for either football club to say: “Sorry, no, we’re shutting the door on that,” without at least discussing the financial benefits that might arise from a shared stadium and that’s where we are today.What is the right outcome? Who knows? We all have our own views, but be rest assured, unless it completely satisfies Everton 101%, there will be no sharing option."[/FONT]​

 

[gordonjblair]

Yes, and in that week all he spoke about, like every chairman and ceo since what seems forever was the importance of moving away from Goodison;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/e/everton/3768651.stm

New Everton chief executive Trevor Birch insists they must quit Goodison Park to revive their fortunes. Everton failed to go ahead with a move to King's Dock, while the groundshare option may be scuppered by Liverpool's current plans for a new stadium.
The club is wrestling with debts and Birch says a move must be considered.
"If we do not find or share a ground which gives us access to additional revenue, it's unlikely we will be a big club again in the near future.
Birch admitted he had not yet investigated the possibility having only just taken over from the departed Michael Dunford.
He said: "I have not seen the plans, I've not seen the reports or the feasibility of it.
"All I am saying is that you have to keep an open mind, if that is the only alternative to Everton generating further revenue.
"Remember there isn't a textbook on how to generate further revenue, and I am open to all suggestions."

what he said was "we need a new ground which gives us access to additional revenue"

what he didn't say was that ground couldn't be a redeveloped GP.

He also said he hadn't looked into it at all.

and HB, since when does 60% + 30% = 100%?

it's all but 60/40, and personally I'd have expected far more than 2:1 or even 3:1 disappointed by the decision on here.

As for the BK members, are they any less Blue than you, do they have less of a say, are their views any less valid?


Look, whether you like the redevelopment idea or not, you can't deny the Club needs to investigate all it's options... If there's one thing this whole sorry show has taught us all it's that we can't afford to have 'no plan B' ever again

As for Dunford, nice long quote.. what actually happened? what did he achieve? what changed?

There was talk of a ground share, we didn't
We had the opportunity to piggy back on KD, but we didn't
There remain feasibility studies on redeveloping GP... it's still not been done.

So what, exactly, did he tackle?

 

[HalewoodBlue]

what he said was "we need a new ground which gives us access to additional revenue"

what he didn't say was that ground couldn't be a redeveloped GP.

He also said he hadn't looked into it at all.

and HB, since when does 60% + 30% = 100%?

it's all but 60/40, and personally I'd have expected far more than 2:1 or even 3:1 disappointed by the decision on here.

As for the BK members, are they any less Blue than you, do they have less of a say, are their views any less valid?


Look, whether you like the redevelopment idea or not, you can't deny the Club needs to investigate all it's options... If there's one thing this whole sorry show has taught us all it's that we can't afford to have 'no plan B' ever again

62/38%, maths was never my strong point. As for bk members, there more negative on there mate

 

[GrandOldTeam]

what he said was "we need a new ground which gives us access to additional revenue"

what he didn't say was that ground couldn't be a redeveloped GP.

He also said he hadn't looked into it at all.

New Everton chief executive Trevor Birch insists they must quit Goodison Park to revive their fortunes

"If we do not find or share a ground which gives us access to additional revenue, it's unlikely we will be a big club again in the near future."


As I have said, every CEO and chairman in the past 10-15 years have spoken of the need to leave Goodison/How its not feasible to redevelop Goodison. But who am I to stop you clinging to that pipedream?

If we remain at Goodison, it wont be for the good of the club, thats for sure.

 

[chicoazul]

Can we just not add the word "Kirkby" to the swear filter.

Lets get back to our roots, pasties, trabs and relationship advice is the foundation this forum was built on.

 

[gordonjblair]

As I have said, every CEO and chairman in the past 10-15 years have spoken of the need to leave Goodison/How its not feasible to redevelop Goodison. But who am I to stop you clinging to that pipedream?

If we remain at Goodison, it wont be for the good of the club, thats for sure.

Were you asleep when our current Chairman was fronting up the GFE effort then?

As for it being a pipedream, any better ideas?

EDIT:

She started it