Kirkby Move - Yes or No?

[kenada_blue]

It's outside the City.

The funny thing is, the past 2 odd years or so they've put signs up on the road saying "Welcome To Liverpool" as you enter into Fazackerly - a 2 minute walk from Kirkby Stadium. That's you're "outside the city" boundry, a 2 minute walk and you step into "Liverpool". I'm pretty sure most people in Kirkby all thought they lived in Liverpool rather than being classed officially as being in Merseyside, which all came about during this proposed move.

Its a technicallity more than anything which is basically a few 100 feet between classed as Liverpool or Merseyside.

 

[Welton Toffee]

Grimsby Town play in Cleethorpes. Do any of the fans give a [Poor language removed]? No.

*note, this may be because Grimsby are [Poor language removed] but you get the point

 

[SuitsBlue]

50k/55k is the initial capacity, supposed expansion to 70k, but what if more is needed after that?

so, what could bestway stand to gain from throwing a few quid at a feasibility study? firstly, who approached them to do it? if they sell/give the land to the council, what will they be getting in return?

the bestway site available has no immediate room available for any associated businesses.

'red herring' was used by me because lcc are red, and a lot of reds fans are norwegian. herring being something of a cultural dish there. it also dealt with the point that bestway only became known to the public during the voting period.

what an amazing coincidence.

as for nwda, i expect a lot of businesses go cap in hand to them for handouts. had wyness not it would have appeared more peculiar. as for playing piggy in the middle between the money men and nwda and lcc, stuff it. for too long they have treated everton football club with disdain. leave them too it, they will need nwda cash to bail out the scummers when they finally break ground on the grade three listed stanley park.

as for feigning politicians clamouring to be seen by voters as trying to do their all to keep everton in the city or to re establish everton on a certain patch, why now? why not a year or 5 or 10 ago.

too little, too late. they can rot.

interested in hearing the possibilities of the businesses ready to bang on the door to pour money into a stadium, SFX wanted a piece of the dock so they could hold entertainment events there, does that mean any new stadium will be competing with the dock site for such events?

as for getting the club to speak openly, why should they? no one else is.

 

[Blue Lou]

Cal's not really helping the situation with his "it's not in the city" mantra. There are a few reasons why Kirkby isn't right and he only states the reknown reason.

TX Bill and Namdrater will have a different viewpoint to those of us based in the area because their sports teams can be moved hundreds of miles away from the fans and no one bats an eye lid because they try to move to where the money is.

In our case, Kirkby doesn't even check that box, there are plans a foot for ultimately a 60,000 seater but with no room for the fans to get their comfortably unless they live in the area (Danny! ).

There are 1,000 places to park next to the stadium for corporate use.
4,000 (possible 8,000 but as it stands Sefton have major concerns about the plan) places in the Park and Ride spread around the area.
One train station which can take 4,000 people an hour
The rest are expected to get walk, taxi or cycle.

Incidentally the Welcome to Knowsley Home of Everton FC signposts have been ordered.

 

[Cal]

Cal's not really helping the situation with his "it's not in the city" mantra. There are a few reasons why Kirkby isn't right and he only states the reknown reason.

TX Bill and Namdrater will have a different viewpoint to those of us based in the area because their sports teams can be moved hundreds of miles away from the fans and no one bats an eye lid because they try to move to where the money is.

In our case, Kirkby doesn't even check that box, there are plans a foot for ultimately a 60,000 seater but with no room for the fans to get their comfortably unless they live in the area (Danny! ).

There are 1,000 places to park next to the stadium for corporate use.
4,000 (possible 8,000 but as it stands Sefton have major concerns about the plan) places in the Park and Ride spread around the area.
One train station which can take 4,000 people an hour
The rest are expected to get walk, taxi or cycle.

Incidentally the Welcome to Knowsley Home of Everton FC signposts have been ordered.

Alright Sherlock.

 

[sam1878]

Please explain why Liverpool City Council approached Steve Broomshead of NWDA with a request for funds to carry out a full feasibility report. Also please state why Mr Broomshead rejected Wyness' recent request (last week) for stadium funds only to be told to speak to Liverpool Council first.

Please explain why you're peddling bullshit because I know for a fact that the NWDA are interested in helping the club, Wyness worked with Broomhead/Gray from the NWDA in trying to force rs minds in favour of groundshare. The NWDA are not the Liverpool Development Agency and don't say 'we don't want you in that part of the north west we want you in this part'.

There's some serious bullshit spouted by some on here.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

In our case, Kirkby doesn't even check that box, there are plans a foot for ultimately a 60,000 seater but with no room for the fans to get their comfortably unless they live in the area (Danny! ).

There are 1,000 places to park next to the stadium for corporate use.
4,000 (possible 8,000 but as it stands Sefton have major concerns about the plan) places in the Park and Ride spread around the area.
One train station which can take 4,000 people an hour
The rest are expected to get walk, taxi or cycle.

Christ almighty. No access for fans? - And you propose Scottie Road?

Please go and do some research.

You would swear Goodison was a state of the art venue.

You criticise some for comparing Kirkby to the Emirates but then you do the same with regards to executive boxes?

Why dont you compare the Emirates executive boxes to what we currently have at Goodison?

You have never been to Kirkby have you?

You haven't seen the proposed site? have you?

If you say you have, I wont believe you after saying there would be a lack of access.

 

[Blue Lou]

everton arena

50k/55k is the initial capacity, supposed expansion to 70k, but what if more is needed after that?

The highest attendance Everton have had is aprox 78,000. Why would that record ever be beaten when ticket prices are so high?

so, what could bestway stand to gain from throwing a few quid at a feasibility study? firstly, who approached them to do it? if they sell/give the land to the council, what will they be getting in return?

Bestway have one of two things to gain in this. Publicity and more accessible plot of land. The Grosvenor consultant approached them. If the club agree to move to the site, LCC will perform a landswap with Bestway allowing Bestway to move to an alternate site in Liverpool.

the bestway site available has no immediate room available for any associated businesses.

There are plans to include a hotel, as I stated there would be concerts. It's a city centre Arena, a lot of business would be interested.

'red herring' was used by me because lcc are red, and a lot of reds fans are norwegian. herring being something of a cultural dish there. it also dealt with the point that bestway only became known to the public during the voting period.

what an amazing coincidence.

The Grosvenor consultant approached Bestway prior to the vote.

as for nwda, i expect a lot of businesses go cap in hand to them for handouts. had wyness not it would have appeared more peculiar. as for playing piggy in the middle between the money men and nwda and lcc, stuff it. for too long they have treated everton football club with disdain. leave them too it, they will need nwda cash to bail out the scummers when they finally break ground on the grade three listed stanley park.

Different council then, think back to the Kings Dock scheme, different council, different political group.

as for feigning politicians clamouring to be seen by voters as trying to do their all to keep everton in the city or to re establish everton on a certain patch, why now? why not a year or 5 or 10 ago.

Kings Dock was in motion five years ago. Prior to that we were moving to Kirkby but Kenwright put a stop to that. I don't see your point?

too little, too late. they can rot.

interested in hearing the possibilities of the businesses ready to bang on the door to pour money into a stadium, SFX wanted a piece of the dock so they could hold entertainment events there, does that mean any new stadium will be competing with the dock site for such events?

If you were involved in an entertainment business, wouldn't you want to be involved in a city centre arena? It would be larger arena than the Echo arena, Bruce Springsteen played at the Emirates, what's stopping him playing at the Everton Arena?

as for getting the club to speak openly, why should they? no one else is.

It would save face. Too many lies have already been outed.

If you have anymore questions, I will gladly answer them

 

[Namdrater]

Cal's not really helping the situation with his "it's not in the city" mantra. There are a few reasons why Kirkby isn't right and he only states the reknown reason.

TX Bill and Namdrater will have a different viewpoint to those of us based in the area because their sports teams can be moved hundreds of miles away from the fans and no one bats an eye lid because they try to move to where the money is.

In our case, Kirkby doesn't even check that box, there are plans a foot for ultimately a 60,000 seater but with no room for the fans to get their comfortably unless they live in the area (Danny! ).

There are 1,000 places to park next to the stadium for corporate use.
4,000 (possible 8,000 but as it stands Sefton have major concerns about the plan) places in the Park and Ride spread around the area.
One train station which can take 4,000 people an hour
The rest are expected to get walk, taxi or cycle.

Incidentally the Welcome to Knowsley Home of Everton FC signposts have been ordered.

I live in Cape Town and the main stadium here is about 10km from where I live, thats not far at all... 10minute drive? Its in the city, I dont say I live 10km from the business district so I live outside the city, if they moved the stadium 15km to the area just passed me, no one would say theyre moving out of the city. Cities are massive, its not a suburb. I walked from way past the Liverpool main train station, to Goodison park in about 20mins, not giving a [Poor language removed] how far it was, nor was I thinking that that 5km+ walk was taking me from one city to another.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

The option of 'no' was there to say no to Kirkby, it doesn't take Einstein to realise that if 'no' had been achieved then ALL other possibilities would be once again on the table with Kirkby being dead-finished-finito-ended, in other words redevelopment, other sites etc would be back on the agenda - the mentally retarded wouldn't have realised that though.

you've now just contradicted yourself, perhap you should read the thread again.

 

[SuitsBlue]

If you have anymore questions, I will gladly answer them

Originally Posted by SuitsBlue
50k/55k is the initial capacity, supposed expansion to 70k, but what if more is needed after that?

The highest attendance Everton have had is aprox 78,000. Why would that record ever be beaten when ticket prices are so high?

when was that record set? has the population grown since? if the new ground was made huge, then drop prices to fill it. better to have 80k at £15 than 40k at £30 (for example)

so, what could bestway stand to gain from throwing a few quid at a feasibility study? firstly, who approached them to do it? if they sell/give the land to the council, what will they be getting in return?

Bestway have one of two things to gain in this. Publicity and more accessible plot of land. The Grosvenor consultant approached them. If the club agree to move to the site, LCC will perform a landswap with Bestway allowing Bestway to move to an alternate site in Liverpool.

why not cut out bestway and let the council give us land? seems like a lot of farting about, or is the loop site a bit of a dog end that bestway would like to wash their hands of because of its problems.

the bestway site available has no immediate room available for any associated businesses.

There are plans to include a hotel, as I stated there would be concerts. It's a city centre Arena, a lot of business would be interested.

a whole hotel, stop the press, 'A Hotel' frontpage news, and some concerts, well, it just continues to amaze.

name these businesses that would be interested.

'red herring' was used by me because lcc are red, and a lot of reds fans are norwegian. herring being something of a cultural dish there. it also dealt with the point that bestway only became known to the public during the voting period.

what an amazing coincidence.

The Grosvenor consultant approached Bestway prior to the vote.

why?

as for nwda, i expect a lot of businesses go cap in hand to them for handouts. had wyness not it would have appeared more peculiar. as for playing piggy in the middle between the money men and nwda and lcc, stuff it. for too long they have treated everton football club with disdain. leave them too it, they will need nwda cash to bail out the scummers when they finally break ground on the grade three listed stanley park.

Different council then, think back to the Kings Dock scheme, different council, different political group.

different people, same agenda.

lets see a real change, lets hear them say to the voters that they refuse to let a multimillion pound business and bastion of the city leave and that they will do everything possible to help everton improve its standing.

not heard it yet, not holding my breath either.

as for feigning politicians clamouring to be seen by voters as trying to do their all to keep everton in the city or to re establish everton on a certain patch, why now? why not a year or 5 or 10 ago.

Kings Dock was in motion five years ago. Prior to that we were moving to Kirkby but Kenwright put a stop to that. I don't see your point?

evidence? what about the extra tier on the parkend? or the forced acquisition orders on the bullens properties.

easy this hindsight game. the council have neglected everton fc for too long. time to let them rue the day they were so nonchalant.

too little, too late. they can rot.

interested in hearing the possibilities of the businesses ready to bang on the door to pour money into a stadium, SFX wanted a piece of the dock so they could hold entertainment events there, does that mean any new stadium will be competing with the dock site for such events?

If you were involved in an entertainment business, wouldn't you want to be involved in a city centre arena? It would be larger arena than the Echo arena, Bruce Springsteen played at the Emirates, what's stopping him playing at the Everton Arena?

so now we are building a stadium so as to attract bon jovi and bruce springsteen.

how many actual rock concerts has the emirates been host to?

as for getting the club to speak openly, why should they? no one else is.

It would save face. Too many lies have already been outed.

save face? whos exactly? why do you expect everton to be squeeky clean and honest in the press and not demand the same from the politicians and the businesses.

smells like dirty filthy hypocrisy to me.

as for the lies that have been outed, what lies and where and when were they outed?

 

[TX Bill]

Interesting.

Go ask any old Baltimore Colts fan about what they thought when they moved to Indianapolis in the middle of the night. I remember the video of the moving trucks pulling away from the club facilities like it was yesterday.

You should thank your lucky stars that as a supporter, Kenwright, Wyness, and the Board even bothered to consider what you thought about the move.

That doesn't happen in the States. A team moves at the wishes of it's owner and who can give the team the bigger better deal. Fans have NO SAY whatsoever in the process. None.

In this case, the supporters were given a voice and have spoken. The vote was to move. End of.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

dont have time to fart about and engage in political maneuvering whilst the clock keeps ticking.

no one wants to leave goodison and the history the club has built there but we cant allow it to strangle the life out of the club again. as we stand we have improved, but how much more improvement can we manage in such a relic?

when i voted i had to consider the future, short term heartache for long term improvement, or a return to the days of treading water hoping not to suffer from the current.

we need to move, the loop was a red herring. a red herring!

maybe we could finance a ground on some make believe spot in the city by selling

yakubu
arteta
buying then immediately selling pienaar
lescott
yobo
jagielka
johnson
vaughan
anichebe
howard
baines

add up all that as well as the money from selling mcfadden and the cash saved by not buying fernandes, then with some naming rights, extra corporate boxes, selling goodison, a couple of years of finishing top four cash coupled with CL cash and not spending a penny on new players we just might be able to fund it.

problem with that is, we wouldnt have a side to play in our all new all singing and dancing stadium where everyone wants it.

its ok, everton will cease to exist, and there will be a huge white elephant of a stadium in the centre of the city that can be bulldozed and the land flogged to a housing developer.

hooray.

tbh the nightmare scenario you portray seems far more likely to occur should we move to kirkby, imo.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

Interesting.

Go ask any old Baltimore Colts fan about what they thought when they moved to Indianapolis in the middle of the night. I remember the video of the moving trucks pulling away from the club facilities like it was yesterday.

You should thank your lucky stars that as a supporter, Kenwright, Wyness, and the Board even bothered to consider what you thought about the move.

That doesn't happen in the States. A team moves at the wishes of it's owner and who can give the team the bigger better deal. Fans have NO SAY whatsoever in the process. None.

In this case, the supporters were given a voice and have spoken. The vote was to move. End of.

i'm not interested in pr exercises, only in the board doing the right thing for everton's future. by the way, only some of the fans have spoken.

 

[sam1878]

you've now just contradicted yourself, perhap you should read the thread again.

I know what the threads about.

And I haven't contradicted myself, the vote was for either a yes to go to Kirkby or a no to stay where we are either forever and redevelop or wait for other options to come along over time - clear as a daisy spring for anyone who has a brain.

Some people have mischieviously said the vote was for either a 'yes' to Kirkby or a 'no' for er nothing or no option whatsoever and stay and rot at GP when that clearly wasn't the case as I explained in the previous paragraph.