Kirkby Move - Yes or No?

[TX Bill]

I'm actually starting to get a laugh out of these fans who think it's their RIGHT to have a say in such matters.

I'll say it again. You, as an Everton supporter were fortunate to even HAVE a say. I don't care if it was 5%, 55% or 100% of the support.

Don't like how it's turned out eh? Then I'm sorry for you. But if the board feel that this is in the best interest of the club, then they're gonna do it. It amazes me that if any supporter would stop and just think for one second, do you think that Kenwright would want to preside over the biggest fiasco in Everton history? My guess is "no, he wouldn't." My guess is that he would take great pains to make the best decision possible for the future of the club. Guarantees? Aren't any. But to think that there is this mass of support that actually think that they know better than the board is beyond my comprehension.

Don't know what you're on about "pr exercises."

Fact is, this is gonna get done, and more than likely from what I'm hearing, at Kirkby.

Start getting used to the idea.

Those who still don't like it....well then you can pull a Manchester United and start up your very own FC United or whatever it would be called.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

I'm actually starting to get a laugh out of these fans who think it's their RIGHT to have a say in such matters.

I'll say it again. You, as an Everton supporter were fortunate to even HAVE a say. I don't care if it was 5%, 55% or 100% of the support.

Don't like how it's turned out eh? Then I'm sorry for you. But if the board feel that this is in the best interest of the club, then they're gonna do it. It amazes me that if any supporter would stop and just think for one second, do you think that Kenwright would want to preside over the biggest fiasco in Everton history? My guess is "no, he wouldn't." My guess is that he would take great pains to make the best decision possible for the future of the club. Guarantees? Aren't any. But to think that there is this mass of support that actually think that they know better than the board is beyond my comprehension.

Don't know what you're on about "pr exercises."

Fact is, this is gonna get done, and more than likely from what I'm hearing, at Kirkby.

Start getting used to the idea.

Those who still don't like it....well then you can pull a Manchester United and start up your very own FC United or whatever it would be called.

what are you talking about? this is a forum, people express their opinions - it's not going to change the world. the board will do as they wish for whatever reasons happen to motivate them. hopefully they have the same objective as the rest of us : a successful everton. the fact is - you have no better idea as to how this will all unfold than anybody else. we're all dependant upon the scraps of information that emerge into the public domain & then we all choose to interpret them differently, hence the debate, i suppose.

 

[TX Bill]

Reading my last post, it seems a bit harsh.

I don't want to downplay the feelings of those who are loyal Everton supporters, many of which have been supporting the club longer than I have.

When we lost the Oilers to Tennessee, there were A LOT of angry people here in our city. After several years and a getting a new NFL franchise, just about everyone is happy again and supports the new team.

You might find the one fan in 1000 that still harbors a bit of resentment towards the orignal team leaving but most are past it and now support the new team with the same fervor.

I know that's not an apples to apples comparison but it's the best I could come up with.

 

[TX Bill]

what are you talking about? this is a forum, people express their opinions - it's not going to change the world. the board will do as they wish for whatever reasons happen to motivate them. hopefully they have the same objective as the rest of us : a successful everton. the fact is - you have no better idea as to how this will all unfold than anybody else. we're all dependant upon the scraps of information that emerge into the public domain & then we all choose to interpret them differently, hence the debate, i suppose.

Well you're right.

I don't have any idea of how it will unfold. It could be the best thing that's ever happened to the club or it could be the biggest disaster that's ever happened to the club.

I think it'll be somewhere in between and leaning more towards a solid success for Everton. I can think of many more potential positives from this than potential negatives.

Call me naive but I trust Kenwright and the rest of the decision makers on this. Kenwright's a Blue. He understands our history. I can't imagine him knowingly wanting to make a decsion that could cost Everton in the long run. And even worse, having his name attached to that decision for a lifetime.

I also know that I won't sway anyone with what I think, especially from my seat 3000 miles away.

But, being 3000 miles away has it's advantages too. One of which is that my opinion my be a bit less biased (notice I didn't say completely unbiased) than one who lives in Liverpool and that I might be able to view this a bit more objectively than the average supporter who's much closer to this.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

I know what the threads about.

And I haven't contradicted myself, the vote was for either a yes to go to Kirkby or a no to stay where we are either forever and redevelop or wait for other options to come along over time - clear as a daisy spring for anyone who has a brain.

Some people have mischieviously said the vote was for either a 'yes' to Kirkby or a 'no' for er nothing or no option whatsoever and stay and rot at GP when that clearly wasn't the case as I explained in the previous paragraph.

you have matey.
earlier in the thread there were a number of posts from the pro-kirkby perspectivr queying altenative proposals & i responded that i moving to kirkby for want of a better plan didn't seem to make much sense. suitsblue replied that there was an alternative i.e. stay at goodison in it's preent state of decay. i pointed out that option wasn't included in the poll, just a yes/no to kirkby. you then responded as if to suggest that was what the "no" option represented. when i queried that you then changed to saying that the "no" vote would have re-opened the range of alternatives you mention in your post, hence the contradiction. also inaccurate, as wyness said at the time of the poll that there was "no plan B".
it's all very well you having one of these brain thingies, but you also need to switch it on!

 

[TX Bill]

By the way, this is just an invitation to all of those new to the forum who've primarily been posting in here.

We'd love to have you express opinions in other threads as well. It's what makes this forum run so well.

The more the merrier as they say.

(That smiley was for Chico and Leonbil)

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

Well you're right.

I don't have any idea of how it will unfold. It could be the best thing that's ever happened to the club or it could be the biggest disaster that's ever happened to the club.

I think it'll be somewhere in between and leaning more towards a solid success for Everton. I can think of many more potential positives from this than potential negatives.

Call me naive but I trust Kenwright and the rest of the decision makers on this. Kenwright's a Blue. He understands our history. I can't imagine him knowingly wanting to make a decsion that could cost Everton in the long run. And even worse, having his name attached to that decision for a lifetime.

I also know that I won't sway anyone with what I think, especially from my seat 3000 miles away.

But, being 3000 miles away has it's advantages too. One of which is that my opinion my be a bit less biased (notice I didn't say completely unbiased) than one who lives in Liverpool and that I might be able to view this a bit more objectively than the average supporter who's much closer to this.

i know what you mean about distance lending perspective, although i'm not that far away - far enough to be a wool, or maybe worse! but it does mean issues like the city boundary don't really bother me. my concern has always been the viability of the scheme & at first i thought it was a great way forward for a club in our financial predicament. but as things have progressed i've become increasingly concerned that far from securing the club's future this development could financially cripple it. so i've become very sceptical about the whole idea, but i'm open to being wrong about it & if it goes ahead i truly hope i am.

 

[TX Bill]

No sweat.

I'm open to being wrong on Manny Fernandes...

 

[SimonP]

Everton didn't begin in the City.

In fact, every ground we have ever played at has originally been 'out of the city'

10 minute drive from Goodison. Unbelievable that people care

At what time of day is it a 10 minute drive from Goodison?

And on what roads?

What with it being 4 and a half miles away, and County Road, Rice Lane, and then Walton Vale, ALL having 40 mph speed limits or less....

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

No sweat.

I'm open to being wrong on Manny Fernandes...

indeed! the lad's got something but is it what we need & is it worth what it'd cost to get it?

 

[Blue Lou]

Please explain why you're peddling bullshit because I know for a fact that the NWDA are interested in helping the club, Wyness worked with Broomhead/Gray from the NWDA in trying to force rs minds in favour of groundshare. The NWDA are not the Liverpool Development Agency and don't say 'we don't want you in that part of the North West we want you in this part'.

There's some serious bullshit spouted by some on here.

Of course they should be interested in helping because it could be the catalyst for regeneration of an area in the North West, one of the many problems is the North West Metropolitan Area (NWMA) do not see Kirkby as a priority. Ironically Steve Broomhead didn't want a groundshare for his beloved Notts County and Forest but pressed for a groundshare in 2005.

Christ almighty. No access for fans? - And you propose Scottie Road?

Please go and do some research.

You would swear Goodison was a state of the art venue.

I never said that, although it could be with a bit of foresight and determination

You criticise some for comparing Kirkby to the Emirates but then you do the same with regards to executive boxes?

I was pointing out the gulf in difference

Why don’t you compare the Emirates executive boxes to what we currently have at Goodison?

It's irrelevant because the club are looking to move away because they don't know to increase revenue

You have never been to Kirkby have you?

I have actually Danny! Northwood, Town Centre and Makro

You haven't seen the proposed site? have you?

No, I have seen photographs and google earth images

If you say you have, I won’t believe you after saying there would be a lack of access.

Please tell me how the 7,000 Wirral based season ticket holders would get to Kirkby in a convenient manner. There is only East Lancs, Valley Road (they would be jam packed with everyone using them even the park and ride scheme), and the train 'service' which has trains every 15minutes, Kirkdale has them every 4 minutes. It's only good access if you live in south Liverpool or Skelmersdale, if you’re coming from the city you're bottlenecked.

Highest attendance was against Liverpool in 1948. I honestly believe that if prices were dropped to £1 then an 80,000 capacity stadium in Kirkby would not sell out. I've read SDG's report and I think we'll have problems selling 40,000 tickets per game, never mind selling 50,000. You probably disagree and that's fair enough

I don't know why the consultant decided to look for an alternative site in the city. You'll be hard pushed to find anyone who would argue on your third point suitsblue!

I know the council was bad in the past, but I think that this bunch is the best yet although by no means perfect (especially in the finance department). The club actually own some buildings near Goodison Park and last year the council leader said the council would gladly perform CPOs on the houses if it meant keeping Everton around, he even went as far as to say the school will be shut down by 2012 because of dwindling population in Walton.

It's not the point how often the Emirates has hosted, the point is the venue is there ready.. If the right people were put in charge we could have a major concert every week.

Save face.. I was alluding to Kenwright and Wyness in particular, Kenwright because he bought the club to prevent it being moved to Danny's homeland and years later attempting to do just the reverse. Wyness because he failed to deliver a stadium in Aberdeen and obviously wants to add it to his cv before moving on, Wyness cv would look much better with a world class Everton arena on than a stadium that is reminiscent of the JJB. The lies predominantly include missing details or misleading fans on the stadium
before the vote but slowly have come to light. You may call it a professional campaign or a calculated risk, I don't.

 

[SuitsBlue]

Of course they should be interested in helping because it could be the catalyst for regeneration of an area in the North West, one of the many problems is the North West Metropolitan Area (NWMA) do not see Kirkby as a priority. Ironically Steve Broomhead didn't want a groundshare for his beloved Notts County and Forest but pressed for a groundshare in 2005.

'of course' - there is far more to the situation that honest motives. to believe otherwise is naive. its all horse trading, and you say kirkby isnt a priority, with the right sweetners someone might just.

Highest attendance was against Liverpool in 1948. I honestly believe that if prices were dropped to £1 then an 80,000 capacity stadium in Kirkby would not sell out. I've read SDG's report and I think we'll have problems selling 40,000 tickets per game, never mind selling 50,000. You probably disagree and that's fair enough

if the product AND the experience are good enough, and reasonably priced enough then the supporters will come.

I don't know why the consultant decided to look for an alternative site in the city. You'll be hard pushed to find anyone who would argue on your third point suitsblue!

not quoted it so i have forgotten what it was.

I know the council was bad in the past, but I think that this bunch is the best yet although by no means perfect (especially in the finance department). The club actually own some buildings near Goodison Park and last year the council leader said the council would gladly perform CPOs on the houses if it meant keeping Everton around, he even went as far as to say the school will be shut down by 2012 because of dwindling population in Walton.

so its alright to castigate bill for being around when agent johnson was trying to sink us, but calling to book the [Poor language removed] on the council now that were peripheral back then isnt fair?

its that dirty filthy smell of hypocrisy again.

goodison isnt city centre, all the CPO's in the world wont pull springsteen that far away, how many extra houses need buying so as to fit a hotel, and retail park on it?

It's not the point how often the Emirates has hosted, the point is the venue is there ready.. If the right people were put in charge we could have a major concert every week.

well, surely the point is how much cash the emirates brings in through none footballing means. you mentioned springsteen. how many major concerts are there on tour in britain right now?

Pie in the Sky. Dreamland

Save face.. I was alluding to Kenwright and Wyness in particular, Kenwright because he bought the club to prevent it being moved to Danny's homeland and years later attempting to do just the reverse. Wyness because he failed to deliver a stadium in Aberdeen and obviously wants to add it to his cv before moving on, Wyness cv would look much better with a world class Everton arena on than a stadium that is reminiscent of the JJB. The lies predominantly include missing details or misleading fans on the stadium
before the vote but slowly have come to light. You may call it a professional campaign or a calculated risk, I don't.

i never heard the kenright to kirkby 6 years ago.

any evidence?


what has aberdeen got to do with everton? or are you just slinging mud and making outlandish statements about a persons CV?

telling lies and hiding all the facts are two completely different things.

lets hear what your sources are with regards contrary facts or misleading statements that have been aired.

are you a major KEIOC member or keioc forum member/activist?

 

[Andriy.EFC]

It's either this or stay at the crumbling Goodison forever. We will never have enough money to afford our own stadium or to rebuild Goodison.

 

[SuitsBlue]

It's either this or stay at the crumbling Goodison forever. We will never have enough money to afford our own stadium or to rebuild Goodison.

the cold hard truth.

i dont like it anymore that anyone else.

i dont like being mismanaged, the wasted opportunities, the wastrel players, the arse hole managers, the media and the vulturesque pundits.

BUT

we arent allowed to further let the problems of the past continue to affect our future.

time to move forward, any move forward will do, we have fallen backwards for too long and too far.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

It's either this or stay at the crumbling Goodison forever. We will never have enough money to afford our own stadium or to rebuild Goodison.

& yet we've got enough money to build a stadium in kirkby, it seems.