Kirkby Move - Yes or No?

Yes or No to the move to Kirkby?


  • Total voters
    59
  • Poll closed .
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Lou they manage it at Goodison, so why couldn't they find access to a more open ground? with a hell of a lot more parking spaces?

Am not having a go at you, I think your a good poster. Just struggle to understand some of your points.

I'd advise visiting the site proposed, you would be surprised :)
 
Sam, I'd say that is a fair analysis, anywhere in the city or on the outskirts will be hard for some people to get to. In all honesty I think Peter Kilfoyle's days are numbered now, he was stuck between a rock and a hard place politically. I think that's one of the reasons he's not voicing his concerns over the other on the Everton situation. Infact he's stated that Everton leaving would be beneficial for his area. I don't know the reasons for his conclusion (I'm guessing land value hike and the loss of 40,00 people walking through the area every fortnight help). Our stadium plans could be dropped however because there were 4,000 objections and the fact that the development does not fit into plan drawn up in 2004 it could be called in, if it is delayed there is every chance we could no longer afford it/it be worthwhile due to high costs.

No problem Danny, I've got no axe to grind with you either, we used to speak on MSN if you remember me and you are the correct Danny (I used to run efc-online) :) What points do you struggle with? I'll try to expand on them to give you an idea of where I'm coming from.
 
a better train station?

the proposed ground will be a 10 minute walk from the train station in Kirkby, roughly the same distance as Kirkdale from Goodison - give or take a few minutes.

Kirkby is served by a maximum of 4 trains an hour to and from Liverpool

Kirkdale is served by twice that number (Ormskirk and Kirkby routes)

Goodison is surrounded by roads that lead to Liverpool that are served by regular bus services - bus services that don't take 45 minutes to get to Liverpool City Centre (as most from Kirkby do)

To argue Kirkby is better served by public transport than a pretty central district of Liverpool is a bit mad really isn't it?
 
No problem Danny, I've got no axe to grind with you either, we used to speak on MSN if you remember me and you are the correct Danny (I used to run efc-online) :) What points do you struggle with? I'll try to expand on them to give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

Still running ToffeeTalk?

Didn't realise it was you mate, welcome, hope you stick about (y)
 
Yep, It's going reasonably well.. six years old as of April! I thought I'd spread my wings a bit and see what's going on in other forums too. :)
 

The train station may have a new service from Kirkby to Wigan and lines may be electrified between Wigan and Kirkby as part of a Merseyside Local Transport Plan. There are possible plans to introduce a new station in Northwood. It's not possible to have any more than four six carriage trains an hour travelling towards the city centre because of scheduling issues.

how many bus, walk, train, tram, helicopter in from kirkby now?

If you remember Paul Gregg offered what he called a 'reverse mortgage' so that Everton could play at Kings Dock, Bill Kenwright didn't like the idea and hinted that PG had something else in mind, he publically asked why Paul Gregg couldn't underwrite a business loan.

keeping control of the club is a fair thing to ask, putting it in the hands of a bank could have led to problems.

What I said was it isn't fair to tar the council of yesteryear with the same brush as the council of today. They have different motives and agenda, by all means criticise the council if it helps you sleep at night. Kirkby golf course was touted in December 1996 by Peter Johnson and a vote took place during a game option 1 was to redevelop Goodison, option 2 was to move to Kirkby Golf Course. Yes, the golf course is closer to Liverpool than the current plan but that's not the issue I have with the current plans.

well, you say not fair, i say very fair. condemn them, they today like those yesterday bend over backwards to help the second team from liverpool. so its guilt by association, its guilt because of action, and its guilt because of inaction.

whats your issue with the current plans?

I told you I'm not part of KEIOC so I wouldn't know anything about the costs of hiring a plane. I was not eligible for a vote.

how much of a 'good old time' can be had on the keioc board? is it hardcore agreement from top to bottom?

how do you feel about the vote you didnt get a say in? how do you feel about the result? how do you feel about the voters?

Back on topic... Scotland Road would be better served for transport than Kirkby as it has several train stations on three different lines, possibly four in the near future, two bus stations, a coach station and is within walking distance to Goodison Park (the stadium with the highest number of walk up fans in the country). As it's not far from Goodison there is nothing stopping a lot of people from parking where they already park.

this footfall thing, how many people live in the city centre? of them, how many are everton supporters that actually go to the game? what percentage of the footfall comes from kirkby or the kirkby direction but inside the city boundary?

as it is, parking around goodison can be quite an ordeal, with weekend and evening games its businesses that have hours in the day and shut when the games are on that rake in extra cash by allowing parking on their premises. the opportunities will be there for kirkby like they are around goodison now, and the same goes for boozers. business follows the customer.

Also on the Goodison Park front, if the club stay there, there could be plans afoot to reopen a train station on County road direct to town especially when you consider our rivals across the park will be getting one on the same track.

although i dont give a flying one about them, isnt it nice that the council already have agree to their 'direct to town' track.

how will everton finance any other proposal besides the kirkby solution?
 
how will everton finance any other proposal besides the kirkby solution?

the same way they are financing the Kirkby "solution"

Robert Earl went on record as saying it will cost Everton £100m in December

the planning application states that it would cost £130m to redevelop Goodison Park.

In general terms, if you can find £100m then an extra £30m shouldn't be too much of a push....
 
Have a look at the transport plans... found here:

http://www.knowsley.gov.uk/resources/225073/Document9_1TAVolume3.pdf (45 mb) if you are really interested, most of the questions you've asked can be answered there.

No matter what happens from this point, the fate of the club will be with the banks no matter where the stadium is located simply because of the high price it costs to build a stadium.

Why are you asking me about KEIOC? I'm a member on the forum as I am a member on this website and many others who believes there is a better alternative to Cherryfield Drive, no more, no less. I don't have any ill feeling towards people who voted yes as I was originally in favour of the move.

On the train station point, especially when you consider that the Merseytravel boss and the local MP is an Evertonian I'm sure they would have not begrudged us a train station on Walton Lane/Cherry Lane or City Road with a direct link to town had the club asked and offered to put some money up for the scheme, just like our rivals are doing.
 
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I can't claim to know their motives. You're better off asking Danny.

Have a look at these two plans and say what you would prefer if you lived in the area.

map-plans.gif


masterplan.png


I'm not going to get political on here, but it is clear that the council are favouring one plan over an other most likely due to financial gains, saying that Kirkby are in a win-win situation from where I am sitting.
 
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Also.. you asked for my reasons for not wanting to move to Kirkby.

Some of my reasons are:
  • Kirkby will cost the club a minimum of £110million (Robert Earl's figure of £150million minus the best case scenario of £40million for naming rights), Goodison could be vastly overhauled for that much. It would also be a substantial share in any city centre stadium.
  • Scotland Road and Goodison Park are viable, deliverable.. we won't know until the club speak to the interested parties. There is no reason to suggest they are not deliverable when as I said Kings Dock was a couple hundred million and we would have a large share for £30million.
  • Staying in Liverpool would enhance the club's brand identity, the city's currently in a renaissance period and tourists are more likely to visit us in a city based stadium as opposoed to get a taxi 8miles of the area. I will say, that for this to happen the club seriously need to promote us. Street signs, airport posters, posters in town etc.
  • I don't believe the transport plan is adequate, I sensed SDG were struggling to justify how 50,000 fans would arrive in Kirkby. They said 2,090 would cycle, 175 coaches (with 45% of season ticket holders in major Merseyside towns opting to take a coach direct) would be put on, 180 taxis would be needed and there would be a park and ride service for 5,000 cars with an average of 2.55 people per car - that's going to be the biggest in the Europe, possibly the world. It's bad enough when your getting off a plane at a foreign airport and you have to wait for the minibus with 300 others.
 
But Lou, lets make it simple.

As I said earlier;

40,000 get to into a cramped Goodison.

I don't see why there would be a problem with 50,000 getting to a much more open plan stadium, with a hell of a lot more car/coach parking.
 
Sam, I'd say that is a fair analysis, anywhere in the city or on the outskirts will be hard for some people to get to. In all honesty I think Peter Kilfoyle's days are numbered now, he was stuck between a rock and a hard place politically. I think that's one of the reasons he's not voicing his concerns over the other on the Everton situation. Infact he's stated that Everton leaving would be beneficial for his area. I don't know the reasons for his conclusion (I'm guessing land value hike and the loss of 40,00 people walking through the area every fortnight help). Our stadium plans could be dropped however because there were 4,000 objections and the fact that the development does not fit into plan drawn up in 2004 it could be called in, if it is delayed there is every chance we could no longer afford it/it be worthwhile due to high costs.

No problem Danny, I've got no axe to grind with you either, we used to speak on MSN if you remember me and you are the correct Danny (I used to run efc-online) :) What points do you struggle with? I'll try to expand on them to give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

Two and a half thousand objections in a town of 42,000 and in a borough of 160,000 (?) is not unusual for a big proposed development thats remotely near residents, overriding local planning policies is not unusual either particularly if massive regeneration is proposed of a deprived area which is what Kirkby undoubtely is, regeneration benefits over consequences is what its usually called. Incidentely how convenient is it that those who moan the most over precious UDP policies of local authorities forget that building a huge enabling development on Edge Lane or Scotland Road would be against Liverpools UDP.

Its past the time objections can be accepted now (*for some reason KRAG are still urging objections on their website when in fact they'll be turned away now) but do KRAG realise that any of these sent in will be binned - http://krag.online.googlepages.com/YOURVIEWSAREIMPORTANTdocument.doc

The new stadium is 50,401 not 55,401, an error of 5,000 is a bit of a major difference. :lol:


*unless the deadline has been extended yet again although I havent seen or heard this anywhere.
 
football stadia + retail park = more traffic, more rubbish, more noise, and more expense.

kirkby dont want it because it will mean council tax rate rises.

undisputable.
 

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