2019/20 Leighton Baines.

[riddick]

Debating Baines at his peak is one thing but if we don’t have a single full back in the academy who can do a better job than a 35 year old Baines that’s worrying. He’s not premier league standard any more. Imagine him with Siggurdson ahead of him up against Traore, Sterling, Rashford, etc. it would be an absolute slaughter.

I miss Oviedo. He was poised to take over as he was in unreal form before that double leg break.

 

[Paul Rideout]

Defenders and the ability to defend: Pejic, Bailey, Van Den Hauwe, Hinchcliffe, Naysmith, Unsworth (also Alan Harper and Distin were better defenders than him too when they had to slot in there). There's eight.

What’s your opinion of Roberto Carlos? If you follow the same mantra, you’d state for all to see that he wouldn’t make that top 5 defenders list...

Which is comical.

 

[Simon Buttle]

Debating Baines at his peak is one thing but if we don’t have a single full back in the academy who can do a better job than a 35 year old Baines that’s worrying. He’s not premier league standard any more. Imagine him with Siggurdson ahead of him up against Traore, Sterling, Rashford, etc. it would be an absolute slaughter.

I have real concerns about the academy setup at the club, it's not producing in recent times and when it does we end with someone like Davies who looks very, very average and has managed the task of going backwards as a player. I think post virus/ the summer Brands needs to have a proper overhaul of the youth setup as it's just not good enough at the moment.

 

[davek]

What’s your opinion of Roberto Carlos? If you follow the same mantra, you’d state for all to see that he wouldn’t make that top 5 defenders list...

Which is comical.

Roberto Carlos could defend as well as attack.

BTW, we're not really comparing some Kopite no mark from Kirkby with Roberto Carlos are we?!

 

[MikeH72]

lol lol lol

I cant think of any reason we'd want a Left Back to be able to defend.

How about acknowledging the rest of the post?

 

[MikeH72]

Defenders and the ability to defend: Pejic, Bailey, Van Den Hauwe, Hinchcliffe, Naysmith, Unsworth (also Alan Harper and Distin were better defenders than him too when they had to slot in there). There's eight.

Oh my god hahahahaha the actual worst defender I’ve ever seen.

 

[davek]

How about acknowledging the rest of the post?

It's ok to have attacking LBs as long as they can balance their duties. Baines couldn't. It's why he was never undisputed number 1 LB under Martinez and why Oviedo had the position a lot of the time.

 

[Paul Rideout]

Roberto Carlos could defend as well as attack.

BTW, we're not really comparing some Kopite no mark from Kirkby with Roberto Carlos are we?!

Im comparing 2 left backs who aren’t known for their defending abilities. I could have also said Lizarazu or Cafu.

Glad you said you think Roberto Carlos could actually defend. You’re in a minority imo

 

[AsiaAsia82]

I have real concerns about the academy setup at the club, it's not producing in recent times and when it does we end with someone like Davies who looks very, very average and has managed the task of going backwards as a player. I think post virus/ the summer Brands needs to have a proper overhaul of the youth setup as it's just not good enough at the moment.

I concur, how do you measure the academy success? Winning the P2 trophy or the number of appearances for the first team by academy players?
I wonder if all the best players from other academies are already in the first team so it gives a false situation anyway.

 

[MikeH72]

It's ok to have attacking LBs as long as they can balance their duties. Baines couldn't. It's why he was never undisputed number 1 LB under Martinez and why Oviedo had the position a lot of the time.

Oviedo only ever played when Baines was injured, in fact I distinctly remember Martinez refusing to drop Baines even when he was in poor form.

 

[Simon Buttle]

I concur, how do you measure the academy success? Winning the P2 trophy or the number of appearances for the first team by academy players?
I wonder if all the best players from other academies are already in the first team so it gives a false situation anyway.

I would just like to see us producing a few more of our own players and those players establishing themselves as first team players. The majority of our youth team players seem to end up in the Championship or league 1. It's been mentioned on here by a few folk in the past that sometimes Unsworth seems to give the impression of being focused on the P2 trophy rather than actually producing decent players, is he the right guy to be in charge? i don't know tbh.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I have real concerns about the academy setup at the club, it's not producing in recent times and when it does we end with someone like Davies who looks very, very average and has managed the task of going backwards as a player. I think post virus/ the summer Brands needs to have a proper overhaul of the youth setup as it's just not good enough at the moment.

Agreed. It’s worrying that we have these players like Browning Galloway Garbutt Robinson Pennington who are hyped up as defenders and then can’t seem to make it at any level of the premier league let alone the level we want to be at. Same with midfielders Barkley aside it’s been a raft of disappointments from Kissock etc. all the way through to Ledson Lundstram Dowell. Even Rodwell fell off a cliff. We seem to create players who shine at 17 then can’t kick on. Even Barkley has regressed from his first season under Martinez.

Then we see players like Holgate Stones and Calvert Lewin from other academies pushing on with us in a way our own products don’t.

 

[Tel001]

To be honest I don't remember Martinez's team throwing away 3 goal leads with ten minutes left every other week either? Whats wrong with just saying they were poor in defence? They were.

Baines was part of that defence...

ok how about ... arsenal, Bournemouth after we went 2-0 up... threw the lead away... scored a 93rs minute “ winner” only for them to equalise a minute later , the chelsea game not to mention the drubbings we got on a regular basis. Not 3 goal leads granted but saying “ poor I’m defence” isn’t accurate either . We had a shocking bad and soft team that made teams look like they could score at will. Baines was also part of Moyes decent defence. Our defenders weren’t the problem , Bobby was . His goals against stats increased every season without fail

 

[rochdaleblue]

I have real concerns about the academy setup at the club, it's not producing in recent times and when it does we end with someone like Davies who looks very, very average and has managed the task of going backwards as a player. I think post virus/ the summer Brands needs to have a proper overhaul of the youth setup as it's just not good enough at the moment.

Maybe I’m mistaken. But after the first summer’s transfer window I’m sure I read somewhere that post window, Brands would now turn his attention to the academy. If he has, it’s taking a long time to see any notable changes. Maybe our academy ban is a factor in this.

 

[Papa Shango]

ok how about ... arsenal, Bournemouth after we went 2-0 up... threw the lead away... scored a 93rs minute “ winner” only for them to equalise a minute later , the chelsea game not to mention the drubbings we got on a regular basis. Not 3 goal leads granted but saying “ poor I’m defence” isn’t accurate either . We had a shocking bad and soft team that made teams look like they could score at will. Baines was also part of Moyes decent defence. Our defenders weren’t the problem , Bobby was . His goals against stats increased every season without fail

You do this every time.

You don't have to exaggerate about how bad the defence was, everybody knows that. It ruins your argument as its called out as being wrong straight away even though the point is generally right!

Moyes defence was not that decent by the way. Have said this loads before, the team could defend well but the actual defence itself always broke when we needed them not to. We got some proper hammerings under Moyes at times too. It was flaky, a lot of that was down to Baines who is not a good defender (not only him though of course!)

This doesn't mean Baines is in any way bad, I have him down as one of the best players of our modern era. Certainly under Moyes. Is that enough to make him a great though? Not for me it isn't, I wouldn't have any of the modern era down as a great though. Cahill would be the closest one for me.