Leighton Baines

[Kev50]

Here 11 years, and then comes back within two weeks to get the clubs best player, even after the chairman who has always backed him to the hilt specifically asked him not to. What a shthouse

 

[TheFinnFan]

new long term contract and lots of dough to our heart and soul

 

[fozzy]

baines seems a very sound lad! so what ever will be will be!

but all this he is a scouser and loves it at everton stuff!

i'm sure he still remembers being rejected by us as a kid!!

 

[Sona]

Take a look at the top of the page, that's at least one instance of me trying to explain to you how his attacking play results in him providing less protection for our defence, and I believe there are additional instances in the previous pages.

You've already admitted that this is the case, the difference is that you think it excuses him of any weakness because it's a tactical decision, whereas I see it as unique part of Leighton Baines game which he will continue to employ whatever team he plays for, and that it is a detriment to his game which you cannot get away from.

I've been reading the discussion between Essex Blue, Tubey and PFIM with great interest. Now I am a football manager (albeit in a lot lower League!) and Essex Blue, I have to say, you are totally wrong.

There is no way that his position high up the pitch on the left hand side is anything other than direct tactical instruction from his manager. In fact, if it was his own decision to play that high up, he would be dropped; we concede more chances down our left hand side, but Moyes saw it as a worthwhile gamble i.e. it gave us more opportunities to create chances by pushing him forward.

Regardless of whether or not Baines' attributes are those of an attacking nature, suggesting that he shirks defensive responsibility and plays high up the field off his own back is, quite frankly, incorrect.

However, it's an extremely interesting topic for discussion (tactics v players v execution of tactics by players), I'll try and dig out a link to a superb article for you.

 

[Sona]

Not sure about the rules on posting links, so instead I will recommend that you google "Guardian Jonathan Wilson what is the relationship between players and tactics"

 

[Ravensblue]

Here 11 years, and then comes back within two weeks to get the clubs best player, even after the chairman who has always backed him to the hilt specifically asked him not to. What a shthouse

The way I see it is say your playing a game where your a fisherman and its your dream to catch moby dick. You inherit a battered boat that's falling to bits you take what little money you have and patch it up best you can you go out fishing going from port to port buying new and exotic parts for your boat so it works just the way you want it to.

Then one day some guy says "you one hell of a fisherman boy, how would you like to sail my super boat?" Which craps all over your boat and that's when you realise moby dick won't even fit in your boat. So you agree to sail the super boat, to live your dream but pipe f and harpoon y is not as good as the ones on your old ship so you take them with you.

Tale as old as time Song as old as rhyme Beauty and the beast.

 

[Darth Toffeeman]

Im not convinced he will win anything.

I think Fergie gave them an extra 20% on the pitch, the squad they have, a few gems apart, RVP, Rooney, Kagawa, on his day, is utter turd and unless he signs some players of real quality, Baines, I think he will really struggle.

Refs were genuinely scared of Ferguson as were the FA. His touchline presence alone would guarantee Utd 12-15 extra points.
I think a lot of clubs will see this season as a chance of pushing them not just off top spot but potentially out of the top 4 completely. A lot of their players are ordinary and I for one would point blank refuse to do any deals with them, unless they offered something along the lines of Rooney for Naismith. That's what I'd be trying to do if I was Moyes

He may win the Charity Shield, Not much else though!

 

[Essex Blue]

I've been reading the discussion between Essex Blue, Tubey and PFIM with great interest. Now I am a football manager (albeit in a lot lower League!) and Essex Blue, I have to say, you are totally wrong.

There is no way that his position high up the pitch on the left hand side is anything other than direct tactical instruction from his manager. In fact, if it was his own decision to play that high up, he would be dropped; we concede more chances down our left hand side, but Moyes saw it as a worthwhile gamble i.e. it gave us more opportunities to create chances by pushing him forward.

Regardless of whether or not Baines' attributes are those of an attacking nature, suggesting that he shirks defensive responsibility and plays high up the field off his own back is, quite frankly, incorrect.

However, it's an extremely interesting topic for discussion (tactics v players v execution of tactics by players), I'll try and dig out a link to a superb article for you.

It all ends with the same result though.

Whether he's been given the exact same instructions from every different manager he's played for throughout his entire career, or whether it's just the way Leighton Baines plays football, the simple fact is that his frequent gambles in advanced play come at the expense of a decreased level of protection to his defence.

So he correctly gets lauded for providing the most opportunities in the league, but people seem to have a problem with acknowledging that the left hand side of our defence is weaker as a result, and that Seamus Coleman provides greater protection to our defence.

And the current discussion would suggest he can't do both, so if he obeyed a different tactic and was told to stay further back, he would no longer be as good going forward.

His lack of defensive protection, whether it be caused through tactics or otherwise, is a weakness in Baines GAME. But people are so in love with him, that they start having a panic attack when people dare to mention it.

 

[electricblue]

What an embarrassing read.

Anyway if Baines goes (and according to SSN he will if the price is right) the blame should lie fairly and squarely with our unambitious owner(s) who for beards now have had in place a policy to sell our best players to keep the club afloat and protect their investment. Just hearing on the news yesterday about how Green managed to avoid £300m in tax recently by doing a deal in his wife's name. This is what we have behind the running of the club, if not directly. FFS United and their manager are trying to take advantage of that, as would any business. Bill and his board must be laughing at fans who are fuming with Moyes for coming back for one of our players as it lets them off the hook. Direct your fume towards the right people. Bigger picture lids.

 

[Sona]

It all ends with the same result though.

...his frequent gambles in advanced play come at the expense of a decreased level of protection to his defence.

Agreed, but again, he is given the license to 'gamble' by his manager. If his manager didn't appreciate his 'gambles', he would take him off.

So he correctly gets lauded for providing the most opportunities in the league, but people seem to have a problem with acknowledging that the left hand side of our defence is weaker as a result,

Correct. Our left hand side of the defence is a weaker as a result of Baines being pushed forward; but this is not Baines' fault.

and that Seamus Coleman provides greater protection to our defence.

The only reason Coleman provides greater protection is because he does not has as much license to roam; Moyes obviously thought that the left was a greater source of chances for us. If it was the other way around, it would be the right hand side that was the weaker part of the defence; again, that wouldn't be Coleman's fault.

His lack of defensive protection, whether it be caused through tactics or otherwise, is a weakness in Baines GAME.

This makes no sense whatsoever. It is not Baines who decides to push so far forward. He is told to do so by his manager.

Above. My comments in bold. However, I think this discussion has run its course; you'll never see it from our perspective, as your fundamental understanding of the difference between player attributes and tactical instruction is flawed.

 

[Essex Blue]

Above. My comments in bold. However, I think this discussion has run its course; you'll never see it from our perspective, as your fundamental understanding of the difference between player attributes and tactical instruction is flawed.

Well at least you acknowledge that he can't do both, and that if he continues to adhere to such tactical instructions that it will come at a defensive consequence.

Maybe one day a manager will tell him not to gamble going forward, but it's unlikely as that's how you get the best out of him, meaning the consequence of defensive weakness will remain.

I understand that Coleman and Baines MIGHT be given different tactical instructions, it doesn't alter the fact that Coleman has been providing greater defensive protection, and that this will continue to happen until Baines is given instructions to stop going forward, which isn't going to happen.

I think Baines is our best player, I just think we could cope without him, and don't think we should ignore how his attacking play increases our defence's vulnerability. There's no shame in that, but it's what happens.

 

[d4ky]

He's 29. 2 maybe 3 good seasons left. If we can get 20m plus a player I'd be very tempted. But to replace baines would be very difficult. But have to remember eventually he will need replacing anyway and we could strengthen other areas with that money.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

I'll settle for 17m plus Büttner, tbh.

He'll go for about 15m, and nothing more, though.

 

[Khalekan]

Can't believe people on here are criticising baines. I am in my early 40s and baines is without doubt the best full back I have seen at the club. People who argue that we are weak down the left, due to this illusion he can't defend properly make me laugh. Great full backs of the past Stevens great athlete but poor distribution,van de hawe quality defensively but average attacker. Baines imo is better than both. Both of these players played in arguably one of our best ever teams. Baines is outstanding going forward, look at the chances he creates, he is solid defensively (not many wide men get the better of him) and he has been voted in the PFA team the last 2 seasons. All I know if that if baines is sold our team will be so much poorer for his departure.

Then you must have seen Pyscho Pat.....a much more solid defender than Leighton Baines ergo a better left full back.

People need to get some perspective here.

Baines is good....but by Jove he is no world beater.

 

[d4ky]

Defensively there are much better younger cheaper left backs. What we would miss from baines is set piece ability and his ability to provide very good service. But for 20m we could easily get a replacement left back and a left winger.