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2021/22 Lucas Digne

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Kev The Rat said:
Moyes certainly didn’t take an axe to the playing staff immediately. It was slow and methodical, not this mad Texas Chainsaw Massacre approach we are now unfortunately witnessing.

He took the (mainly average) squad that Walter left behind , galvanised them via man management and he got immediate results. Which is what a decent manager would do.

It’s the manager not the players. Benitez is a bad, divisive and failing manager so he is obviously going to blame the players to deflect from his own incompetence.
Click to expand...

Who has Benitez axed from the playing staff apart from the rumours about Digne? A chainsaw massacre? What are you talking about? He’s not even had one window yet and all he’s done is fired a shot across Digne’s bow but even then offered him a way back into the team.

People are making out that he’s decimated the squad. Only this past few weeks we’ve seen Richarlison Allan Godfrey Gordon Branthwaite all line up behind him.

I also seem to remember Moyes punting Ginola Blomqvist Nyarko at the earliest opportunity possible.

You’ve started to invent negative realities for Benitez that even happened yet. The results haven’t been great at all, but watch the work rate against Arsenal and Chelsea and tell me how he’s massacred the squad again.
 

Here's where I am.

The Pro-Digne, Anti-Rafael Case

  1. Rafael is a belligerent, heavy-handed knob who has bullied players before (ostracizing Xabi for attending the birth of his son rather than play in CL game)
  2. Rafael is a couple of bad results from being run out of the squad, and then we've alienated Digne for nothing
  3. Digne has been a captain, is one of our senior leaders
  4. Digne has been one of our best performers since he's been here
  5. Digne especially offers something going forward which we're not exactly dripping with; one of the best assists men in the league past few yearsw
  6. Rafael has changed the system to take away the main club in Digne's bag, of course he's going to be upset
  7. Digne is one of our few players who can genuinely be called top-tier talent
  8. Other top players will look at Rafael putting Digne's balls on a plate and say, no thanks; we'll never recruit anyone decent
  9. Squad is thin already, why dump a good player

The Pro-Rafael, Anti-Digne Case

  1. If Rafael is going to do his job he's got to have a free hand. If this is how he sees fit to play it you have to back him. It's difficult because he really is only a couple of nightmares away from being run out on a rail, but I don't believe in backing the boss 50% or 75% or 90%. Rafael is the boss, and the boss calls the shots, full stop. Otherwise we're back to the Brands/Moshiri/Kenwright/DBB/whoever else committee.
  2. This side has been mentally weak under several managers. At some point you have to look at the leaders on the pitch. Under any measure Digne is, or should be, one of these, but the weak mentality has persisted. Someone who was really worth his salt would have rounded on his fellows and whipped them into shape. Digne could have been, probably should have been that guy, and hasn't been.
  3. Digne's form has been relatively poor, by his standards. My personal eye test, all disclaimers, the plural of anecdotes is not data, etc. - his set piece delivery has been poor. Before he got taken off corners he was putting them all in waist-high to the first man. Under Carlo his production had declined so it's not just Rafael.
  4. Look at his CV: Lille, PSG, Roma, Barcelona. That's awful fancy, but you have to wonder, why didn't he stick anywhere? Also, he did not make the squad for France's 2018 WC winner (some rando named Djibril Sidibe beat him out for a spot, go figure). Maybe all them weren't wrong, maybe once he's been around awhile it turns out he's not all that and a bag of chips
  5. Digne is arguably at or close to his peak. Probably only downhill from here. Maybe not now, maybe soon, maybe it's started already?
  6. Digne is one of our few players who can genuinely be called top-tier talent. This is a pro-Digne point but also a pro-Rafael point - sell high. Like shares, you'd rather sell too soon than too later.
  7. Whatever the cause, whoever's at fault, if it's going to fester, cut bait.
  8. The performances in the three games since Digne has been dropped: 2/3 were spirited, the Chelsea especially encouraging because the kids played so well. 1/3 was putrid. On the balance does that favor Rafael? I think so.
  9. The numbers (PL only):
    1. 13 games with Digne vs. 4 games without Digne (wol, ARS, cry, che)
      1. GF/90: 1.23 with, 1.25 without
      2. GA/90: 1.69 with, 1.75 without
      3. GD/90: -0.46 with, -0.5 without
      4. Pts/game: 1.15 ppg with, 1.0 without
    2. That's a wash (warning re: small sample size for the without-Digne data set). If he's so good then why did benching him not hurt the team? Baseball star Ralph Kiner, from 1947-54 or so, was one of the dominant players of the game on a terrible team. His club, Pittsburgh Pirates, consistently refused to raise his salary. Eventually they dumped him, telling him, "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you."

I have to say- I like Digne but when I put it down like this I think we sell while his value is high and get some badly needed cash.
 
TimHowardsBeardJuice said:
Here's where I am.

The Pro-Digne, Anti-Rafael Case

  1. Rafael is a belligerent, heavy-handed knob who has bullied players before (ostracizing Xabi for attending the birth of his son rather than play in CL game)
  2. Rafael is a couple of bad results from being run out of the squad, and then we've alienated Digne for nothing
  3. Digne has been a captain, is one of our senior leaders
  4. Digne has been one of our best performers since he's been here
  5. Digne especially offers something going forward which we're not exactly dripping with; one of the best assists men in the league past few yearsw
  6. Rafael has changed the system to take away the main club in Digne's bag, of course he's going to be upset
  7. Digne is one of our few players who can genuinely be called top-tier talent
  8. Other top players will look at Rafael putting Digne's balls on a plate and say, no thanks; we'll never recruit anyone decent

The Pro-Rafael, Anti-Digne Case

  1. If Rafael is going to do his job he's got to have a free hand. If this is how he sees fit to play it you have to back him. It's difficult because he really is only a couple of nightmares away from being run out on a rail, but I don't believe in backing the boss 50% or 75% or 90%. Rafael is the boss, and the boss calls the shots, full stop. Otherwise we're back to the Brands/Moshiri/Kenwright/DBB/whoever else committee.
  2. This side has been mentally weak under several managers. At some point you have to look at the leaders on the pitch. Under any measure Digne is, or should be, one of these, but the weak mentality has persisted. Someone who was really worth his salt would have rounded on his fellows and whipped them into shape. Digne could have been, probably should have been that guy, and hasn't been.
  3. Digne's form has been relatively poor, by his standards. My personal eye test, all disclaimers, the plural of anecdotes is not data, etc. - his set piece delivery has been poor. Before he got taken off corners he was putting them all in waist-high to the first man. Under Carlo his production had declined so it's not just Rafael.
  4. Look at his CV: Lille, PSG, Roma, Barcelona. That's awful fancy, but you have to wonder, why didn't he stick anywhere? Also, he did not make the squad for France's 2018 WC winner (some rando named Djibril Sidibe beat him out for a spot, go figure). Maybe all them weren't wrong, maybe once he's been around awhile it turns out he's not all that and a bag of chips
  5. Digne is arguably at or close to his peak. Probably only downhill from here. Maybe not now, maybe soon, maybe it's started already?
  6. Digne is one of our few players who can genuinely be called top-tier talent. This is a pro-Digne point but also a pro-Rafael point - sell high. Like shares, you'd rather sell too soon than too later.
  7. Whatever the cause, whoever's at fault, if it's going to fester, cut bait.
  8. The performances in the three games since Digne has been dropped: 2/3 were spirited, the Chelsea especially encouraging because the kids played so well. 1/3 was putrid. On the balance does that favor Rafael? I think so.
  9. The numbers (PL only):
    1. 13 games with Digne vs. 4 games without Digne (wol, ARS, cry, che)
      1. GF/90: 1.23 with, 1.25 without
      2. GA/90: 1.69 with, 1.75 without
      3. GD/90: -0.46 with, -0.5 without
      4. Pts/game: 1.15 ppg with, 1.0 without
    2. That's a wash (warning re: small sample size for the without-Digne data set). If he's so good then why did benching him not hurt the team? Baseball star Ralph Kiner, from 1947-54 or so, was one of the dominant players of the game on a terrible team. His club, Pittsburgh Pirates, consistently refused to raise his salary. Eventually they dumped him, telling him, "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you."

I have to say- I like Digne but when I put it down like this I think we sell while his value is high and get some badly needed cash.
Click to expand...
We don’t need cash
We need a change in the regulations about using cash fairly
 
TimHowardsBeardJuice said:
Here's where I am.

The Pro-Digne, Anti-Rafael Case

  1. Rafael is a belligerent, heavy-handed knob who has bullied players before (ostracizing Xabi for attending the birth of his son rather than play in CL game)
  2. Rafael is a couple of bad results from being run out of the squad, and then we've alienated Digne for nothing
  3. Digne has been a captain, is one of our senior leaders
  4. Digne has been one of our best performers since he's been here
  5. Digne especially offers something going forward which we're not exactly dripping with; one of the best assists men in the league past few yearsw
  6. Rafael has changed the system to take away the main club in Digne's bag, of course he's going to be upset
  7. Digne is one of our few players who can genuinely be called top-tier talent
  8. Other top players will look at Rafael putting Digne's balls on a plate and say, no thanks; we'll never recruit anyone decent

The Pro-Rafael, Anti-Digne Case

  1. If Rafael is going to do his job he's got to have a free hand. If this is how he sees fit to play it you have to back him. It's difficult because he really is only a couple of nightmares away from being run out on a rail, but I don't believe in backing the boss 50% or 75% or 90%. Rafael is the boss, and the boss calls the shots, full stop. Otherwise we're back to the Brands/Moshiri/Kenwright/DBB/whoever else committee.
  2. This side has been mentally weak under several managers. At some point you have to look at the leaders on the pitch. Under any measure Digne is, or should be, one of these, but the weak mentality has persisted. Someone who was really worth his salt would have rounded on his fellows and whipped them into shape. Digne could have been, probably should have been that guy, and hasn't been.
  3. Digne's form has been relatively poor, by his standards. My personal eye test, all disclaimers, the plural of anecdotes is not data, etc. - his set piece delivery has been poor. Before he got taken off corners he was putting them all in waist-high to the first man. Under Carlo his production had declined so it's not just Rafael.
  4. Look at his CV: Lille, PSG, Roma, Barcelona. That's awful fancy, but you have to wonder, why didn't he stick anywhere? Also, he did not make the squad for France's 2018 WC winner (some rando named Djibril Sidibe beat him out for a spot, go figure). Maybe all them weren't wrong, maybe once he's been around awhile it turns out he's not all that and a bag of chips
  5. Digne is arguably at or close to his peak. Probably only downhill from here. Maybe not now, maybe soon, maybe it's started already?
  6. Digne is one of our few players who can genuinely be called top-tier talent. This is a pro-Digne point but also a pro-Rafael point - sell high. Like shares, you'd rather sell too soon than too later.
  7. Whatever the cause, whoever's at fault, if it's going to fester, cut bait.
  8. The performances in the three games since Digne has been dropped: 2/3 were spirited, the Chelsea especially encouraging because the kids played so well. 1/3 was putrid. On the balance does that favor Rafael? I think so.
  9. The numbers (PL only):
    1. 13 games with Digne vs. 4 games without Digne (wol, ARS, cry, che)
      1. GF/90: 1.23 with, 1.25 without
      2. GA/90: 1.69 with, 1.75 without
      3. GD/90: -0.46 with, -0.5 without
      4. Pts/game: 1.15 ppg with, 1.0 without
    2. That's a wash (warning re: small sample size for the without-Digne data set). If he's so good then why did benching him not hurt the team? Baseball star Ralph Kiner, from 1947-54 or so, was one of the dominant players of the game on a terrible team. His club, Pittsburgh Pirates, consistently refused to raise his salary. Eventually they dumped him, telling him, "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you."

I have to say- I like Digne but when I put it down like this I think we sell while his value is high and get some badly needed cash.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the breakdown but as your stats show we are better with him than without and I would prefer to have a manager that can work with our better players rather than ostracize them for disagreements. If getting in the team has more to do with blindly following RB's ideas rather than ability we are are going to end up with lesser players scraping draws, lucky wins punctuated by absolute hammerings.
 
Mrtallywacker said:
It was Niclas Alexandersson my son.

God bless.
Click to expand...
Jesper Blomqvist v Bolton is the one I remember Moyes went to the back row of the dugout and had it with him because of his reaction to being subbed. Now maybe he had a similar thing with Alexandersson but I can’t remember that .So anyway god Bless to you my son merry Christmas
 

TimHowardsBeardJuice said:
Here's where I am.

The Pro-Digne, Anti-Rafael Case

  1. Rafael is a belligerent, heavy-handed knob who has bullied players before (ostracizing Xabi for attending the birth of his son rather than play in CL game)
  2. Rafael is a couple of bad results from being run out of the squad, and then we've alienated Digne for nothing
  3. Digne has been a captain, is one of our senior leaders
  4. Digne has been one of our best performers since he's been here
  5. Digne especially offers something going forward which we're not exactly dripping with; one of the best assists men in the league past few yearsw
  6. Rafael has changed the system to take away the main club in Digne's bag, of course he's going to be upset
  7. Digne is one of our few players who can genuinely be called top-tier talent
  8. Other top players will look at Rafael putting Digne's balls on a plate and say, no thanks; we'll never recruit anyone decent
  9. Squad is thin already, why dump a good player

The Pro-Rafael, Anti-Digne Case

  1. If Rafael is going to do his job he's got to have a free hand. If this is how he sees fit to play it you have to back him. It's difficult because he really is only a couple of nightmares away from being run out on a rail, but I don't believe in backing the boss 50% or 75% or 90%. Rafael is the boss, and the boss calls the shots, full stop. Otherwise we're back to the Brands/Moshiri/Kenwright/DBB/whoever else committee.
  2. This side has been mentally weak under several managers. At some point you have to look at the leaders on the pitch. Under any measure Digne is, or should be, one of these, but the weak mentality has persisted. Someone who was really worth his salt would have rounded on his fellows and whipped them into shape. Digne could have been, probably should have been that guy, and hasn't been.
  3. Digne's form has been relatively poor, by his standards. My personal eye test, all disclaimers, the plural of anecdotes is not data, etc. - his set piece delivery has been poor. Before he got taken off corners he was putting them all in waist-high to the first man. Under Carlo his production had declined so it's not just Rafael.
  4. Look at his CV: Lille, PSG, Roma, Barcelona. That's awful fancy, but you have to wonder, why didn't he stick anywhere? Also, he did not make the squad for France's 2018 WC winner (some rando named Djibril Sidibe beat him out for a spot, go figure). Maybe all them weren't wrong, maybe once he's been around awhile it turns out he's not all that and a bag of chips
  5. Digne is arguably at or close to his peak. Probably only downhill from here. Maybe not now, maybe soon, maybe it's started already?
  6. Digne is one of our few players who can genuinely be called top-tier talent. This is a pro-Digne point but also a pro-Rafael point - sell high. Like shares, you'd rather sell too soon than too later.
  7. Whatever the cause, whoever's at fault, if it's going to fester, cut bait.
  8. The performances in the three games since Digne has been dropped: 2/3 were spirited, the Chelsea especially encouraging because the kids played so well. 1/3 was putrid. On the balance does that favor Rafael? I think so.
  9. The numbers (PL only):
    1. 13 games with Digne vs. 4 games without Digne (wol, ARS, cry, che)
      1. GF/90: 1.23 with, 1.25 without
      2. GA/90: 1.69 with, 1.75 without
      3. GD/90: -0.46 with, -0.5 without
      4. Pts/game: 1.15 ppg with, 1.0 without
    2. That's a wash (warning re: small sample size for the without-Digne data set). If he's so good then why did benching him not hurt the team? Baseball star Ralph Kiner, from 1947-54 or so, was one of the dominant players of the game on a terrible team. His club, Pittsburgh Pirates, consistently refused to raise his salary. Eventually they dumped him, telling him, "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you."

I have to say- I like Digne but when I put it down like this I think we sell while his value is high and get some badly needed cash.
Click to expand...
Great post. Pros, cons and a conclusion. Reminds me of writing up science experiments in senior school. A+

Just to add to that, Digne is an employee. Benny is his boss. You do what your told, no matter how much you dislike it. (if that's the case anyway).

Digne:

giphy.gif


Benny:

giphy.gif


Digne:

giphy.gif
 
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