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Lukaku

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Tubey said:
Yeah I remember when Jeffers was 20 and had a near 1 in 2 record overall at Everton and everyone was raving about him based on goals alone. Nobody could question his talent and potential then as well.

Except you could, as his overall game was nowhere near up to scratch and his career showed as such.

Lukaku scores goals, albeit the current love-in is due to 3 goals in 1 game against a sub-par side on the night where he was given all three on a plate - he played very well, but it doesn't excuse the fact that for a good four months now at the very least he's been absolutely dire except for the odd goal going in off his hip or whatever.

I don't dislike Lukaku, I want to like him, but I can't just ignore everything wrong with his game, especially given his last good performance for us was in Europe and he promptly followed that up with months upon months of pure gash, culminating in coming out to the media and claiming he was a big fish in a small pond, despite not being one of our best five players this year.

Let's see him do the business for a good few months before we start labelling him as anything. All he's proven thus far is that he's a good mid-tier Premier League striker who'll get goals like Yakubu did but offer nothing much else on the pitch. For £28m, he needs to be more than the next Yakubu for us over a long period of time.
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What is it with you and Lukaku?

Jeffers? Really? Was Jeffers' record one of/the most impressive in Europe for his age over several consecutive years of top flight football?

On a plate? From where I was sitting, he scored a header from something like 12 yards out when the cross was practically behind him, a tap in where he did what all top strikers do and got himself in the perfect position to score and one where he made a good run before carrying the ball 30 yards, drawing the keeper and then deftly chipping him.

He hasn't been dire at all. He hasn't been fantastic this season, but I doubt we'd be having this conversation if just a couple of his team mates hadn't been way below par this year. His touch isn't great, we know this, but he's a striker. You want a striker to make the right runs and slot. He does both of those things as well as 99% of players in the premier league currently. He has also shown some positive signs this season as far as the rest of his game is concerned, turning in a few near-complete performances recently. There's no doubt he's improved overall in that respect since last season.

"Let's see him do the business for a good few months" How about 3 years? It seems like you focus far too hard on his hold-up play and the errors he makes there and massively downplay everything else he contributes.

"Mid-tier PL striker" Wow.

"Offers us nothing else on the pitch". No. Just no. A dodgy touch does not equate to him being completely useless at everything other than scoring.
 
paulbefc said:
What is it with you and Lukaku?

Jeffers? Really? Was Jeffers' record one of/the most impressive in Europe for his age over several consecutive years of top flight football?

On a plate? From where I was sitting, he scored a header from something like 12 yards out when the cross was practically behind him, a tap in where he did what all top strikers do and got himself in the perfect position to score and one where he made a good run before carrying the ball 30 yards, drawing the keeper and then deftly chipping him.

He hasn't been dire at all. He hasn't been fantastic this season, but I doubt we'd be having this conversation if just a couple of his team mates hadn't been way below par this year. His touch isn't great, we know this, but he's a striker. You want a striker to make the right runs and slot. He does both of those things as well as 99% of players in the premier league currently. He has also shown some positive signs this season as far as the rest of his game is concerned, turning in a few near-complete performances recently. There's no doubt he's improved overall in that respect since last season.

"Let's see him do the business for a good few months" How about 3 years? It seems like you focus far too hard on his hold-up play and the errors he makes there and massively downplay everything else he contributes.

"Mid-tier PL striker" Wow.

"Offers us nothing else on the pitch". No. Just no. A dodgy touch does not equate to him being completely useless at everything other than scoring.
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Lukaku is to Tubey what Howard is to Neiler. Ignore him.
 
Actually Jeffers did have one of the best records for his age in top flight football when he was at Everton. It's easy to forget that now given how his career eventually went, but yes, he did.

"On a plate" isn't necessarily a criticism of Lukaku - that's his type of game; getting in to positions as you say. Every goal he scores should be on a plate really if he's doing his job properly; the 30 yard curlers are a bonus. But that standard of opposition was woeful; in the Premier League, he isn't doing the same thing.

I disagree with you completely on the next paragraph - he has been dire. We simply disagree on that - I feel he's been a liability more often than not.

He needs to be as dominant as he was against Bern on a consistent basis at Premier League level before I rave about him. I have nothing whatsoever against Lukaku - but I'm not going be blinded by the name on the back of the shirt and ignore what he actually does on the pitch. Let's see him follow up what he did in the league, and not go missing for two or three months like he did after Wolfsburg.
 

steken1 said:
He's been crap all season, in football terms. If he scores 20 who cares?
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Nobody, as it'd mean he scores 13 goals in the next 13 games. Stats suggest he's more like to score 4.

So if in football terms he's crap and he scores 11 goals, that's crap all round ain't it?
 
Tubey said:
Nobody, as it'd mean he scores 13 goals in the next 13 games. Stats suggest he's more like to score 4.

So if in football terms he's crap and he scores 11 goals, that's crap all round ain't it?
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Who says we've got 13 games left? I wasn't just talking league games.

I agree though he's been poor most of this season.
 
You get the feeling most people are so short sighted that they'd rather Lukaku got 20 goals and the rest of the team 20 between them, instead of Lukaku getting 15 goals and the rest of the team getting 40 between them.

I'd love for someone to tell Martinez goals are the only part of Lukaku's game which is important and see what kind of reply they get.

It's a Lukaku's job to score goals ands thats all that matters like its Baines job to defend and thats all that matters.
 
Tubey said:
So it's up to the £28m striker to adapt his game to the style of play that he's now been involved in for nearly a year and a half. People speak of potential - I don't see that potential in a player who has barely improved despite being asked to play a certain role for a long period of time.

I agree it's not his fault he's being asked to play a certain way, but conversely if he's a world class potential talent then you'd think he'd be making headway if the manager refuses to play to his strengths.

I've never said anything other than Lukaku is potentially a world class off the shoulder finisher, but that's not what we're using him for right now.
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Consider the fact of bringing in aguero to stoke and telling him to collect the ball and hold it up from a punt up field. Certainly Aguero is a world class striker (far better than that of any stiker we or stoke have) but he would struggle to carry out the job in the stoke team as they do not play to his advantage. The same happened to Torres when he moved to Chelski from the dark side. Surely there needs to be a happy medium and goals are what win games, so to say the £28Mill striker needs to adapt his game is a bit harsh when the game does not suit his style.
 

craighuytonblue said:
Consider the fact of bringing in aguero to stoke and telling him to collect the ball and hold it up from a punt up field. Certainly Aguero is a world class striker (far better than that of any stiker we or stoke have) but he would struggle to carry out the job in the stoke team as they do not play to his advantage. The same happened to Torres when he moved to Chelski from the dark side. Surely there needs to be a happy medium and goals are what win games, so to say the £28Mill striker needs to adapt his game is a bit harsh when the game does not suit his style.
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I said this in July 2014:

Tubey said:
We played perfectly to his strengths in 2013 when we were getting used to the possession based stuff and needed the outball runner in the channels - and he dominated because of it. But we did not in 2014 when confidence oozed and teams began to fear us and sit back, and his performances suffered.

And is Martinez going to adopt his tactics for him? Maybe... can't see it though. I'd expect Martinez to pressure Lukaku to adapt his game before that happened.
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That still stands.
 

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