Luke Garbutt

[marty mcfly]

Baines is as fit a player there is, he'll easily play until his mid 30's. He's also the second highest assist provider in the league so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that his forms dropping off?

It is dropping off from where it was last season or even a few seasons ago plus he's getting injured more. If Garbutt is as good as people think then he would win Baines' position on merit as Baines declines.

Full back is a very hard position to play as you essentially have to be up and down the pitch constantly. I could definitely see Baines moving into Barry's position next season.

If he goes to someone like West Brom he won't play for a top 6 club for at least 3 years if at all because those clubs would only buy him if they thought he would be a starter.

Utd have Shaw
Liverpool have Moreno
Chelsea would never sign anyone under the age of 24 as a starter
Arsenal have Gibbs and Monreal - he might go there as cover
City would never sign anyone under the age of 24 as a starter
Southampton have just signed Bertrand
Spurs have Rose and Davies - he might fancy his chances there however we could make it part of the deal with Mirallas that they don't sign him.

Anyone else?

All those teams have young left backs that are more than likely been bought with the intention of being there for the next load of seasons.

It's a risk for him whatever he does. I'm not sure going to team lower down and playing hoofball would be too good for his career. Villa might be a good move but god knows how long Lambert has or even Swansea.

 

[Abraders]

It is dropping off from where it was last season or even a few seasons ago plus he's getting injured more. If Garbutt is as good as people think then he would win Baines' position on merit as Baines declines.

Full back is a very hard position to play as you essentially have to be up and down the pitch constantly. I could definitely see Baines moving into Barry's position next season.

The dilemma here is that we have Barry. haha

 

[catcherintherye]

That would force Oviedo to ask to leave since he would know he has no future at the club leaving us with one 30 year old left back at the end of the season. For a couple of good crosses in one game that's a hefty price to pay.

I think it comes down to communication and man management doesn't it? I see Oviedo as a good utility man for us. He can fill in at LB, RB, LM, MR, and central midfield. I think he was right to start in the derby but I think longer term in an ideal world Garbutt would be my preference for Left back.

As you have said above, I see Baines playing more in Central midfield as well, especially if we move increasingly to a 4-3-3. Oviedo would get games in that system as a backup.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

It is dropping off from where it was last season or even a few seasons ago plus he's getting injured more. If Garbutt is as good as people think then he would win Baines' position on merit as Baines declines.

Full back is a very hard position to play as you essentially have to be up and down the pitch constantly. I could definitely see Baines moving into Barry's position next season.

There's not one player in the squad who's playing to the same level as last season, but Baines has more assists already this season and we've got 14 games to go. As for the injuries again there's not been one key player who hasn't suffered this season it's nothing to do with his age, poor preparation maybe behind the scenes but that's the coaching staffs fault.

People are making huge assumptions that Garbutt will replace Baines, he's a young lad with limited experience and he'll need have a hell of a career if he's to get anyway near the level Baines is at.

 

[marty mcfly]

The dilemma here is that we have Barry. haha

Barry is done after this season. I honestly think he'll be dropped for Chelsea.

 

[marty mcfly]

There's not one player in the squad who's playing to the same level as last season, but Baines has more assists already this season and we've got 14 games to go. As for the injuries again there's not been one key player who hasn't suffered this season it's nothing to do with his age, poor preparation maybe behind the scenes but that's the coaching staffs fault.

People are making huge assumptions that Garbutt will replace Baines, he's a young lad with limited experience and he'll need have a hell of a career if he's to get anyway near the level Baines is at.

But injuries do happen and they do increase with age especially the recovery time plus. I'm not making the assumption he will replace Baines but you don't simply get handed the position for a top team unless you're a star or extremely lucky and there are reasons why he should think he has a realistic chance - certainly more chance than any of those other teams I listed. I wonder if he saw the Shaw signing and thought that should be me.

 

[Alex Hindmarsh]

Lets get real, he's play how many games? Two? Three? People really want him to start over Oviedo on the basis of a handful of games? Oviedo has come in and performed very well in every showing, never mind his run last jan/feb. It doesn't take a genius to see Garbutts got a bit of quality about him but there's no way after so few showings he should feel like he can demand game time and certain wages etc. I'd love to see him stay and eventually succeed Baines but surely he has to be realistic about his game time and be patient. Guess it would be great for all parties if we tied him to a deal, sent him out on loan to a Palace, West Brom kind of team and see how he copes with a prolonged run in a premier league side.

 

[TheFinnFan]

I can't blame him for wanting games and you shouldn't either.. He needs them to develop and if he can't get them here, he'll certainly get them elsewhere. Look at Rodwell. He sat on the bench for seasons at City and didn't hit anywhere near his potential. Okay, he did have injuries, but he was still their 8th choice midfielder.

if he wants to develop, he can go to loanspell
he's not good enough to be in our opening xi so he must wait. he should understand that after baines he will have big role but these kids have no patience, they think theyre damn special. get in the effin line and eat some humble pie lad.

 

[Toffeelover]

People are making huge assumptions that Garbutt will replace Baines, he's a young lad with limited experience and he'll need have a hell of a career if he's to get anyway near the level Baines is at.

You miss the point, without game time how is he going to develop to the Baines level?

 

[catcherintherye]

Lets get real, he's play how many games? Two? Three? People really want him to start over Oviedo on the basis of a handful of games? Oviedo has come in and performed very well in every showing, never mind his run last jan/feb. It doesn't take a genius to see Garbutts got a bit of quality about him but there's no way after so few showings he should feel like he can demand game time and certain wages etc. I'd love to see him stay and eventually succeed Baines but surely he has to be realistic about his game time and be patient. Guess it would be great for all parties if we tied him to a deal, sent him out on loan to a Palace, West Brom kind of team and see how he copes with a prolonged run in a premier league side.

Oviedo is a good left back there's no doubt about that. I think Garbutt is a similar level with different abilities, but the potential to be even better. We are in a very fortunate position with left backs really.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

You miss the point, without game time how is he going to develop to the Baines level?

So you think we should drop or move Baines and so weaken ourselves in the faint hope that Garbutt will eventually be as good as Baines?

The point is who else is as good as Baines or has been? We haven't had a leftback of his quality since the 60's quite why people are so desperate to move him or have him dropped is beyond my comprehension. Especially for a kid with only 4 first team apperances behind in at the age of 21, it's not as if he's set the world alight with his performances either.

 

[catcherintherye]

So you think we should drop or move Baines and so weaken ourselves in the faint hope that Garbutt will eventually be as good as Baines?

The point is who else is as good as Baines or has been? We haven't had a leftback of his quality since the 60's quite why people are so desperate to move him or have him dropped is beyond my comprehension. Especially for a kid with only 4 first team apperances behind in at the age of 21, it's not as if he's set the world alight with his performances either.

I don't think people are saying drop Baines. We could move Baines either further forward to a left wing position or have him in Barry's position. Alternatively you could play Garbutt left wing. Whichever way you want to permeate it, if you give Garbutt the above impression he will leave.

That is fine, but I do question the long term planning aspect of this. In a position that relies on fitness to be reliant on Baines who has now turned 30 would mark a risk. I also don't think we would be weakening ourselves to play him further forward.

The best manager of recent times for me has been Fergusan, a big part of that was his ability to rebuild sides and look at the long as well as short term. Beckham, Butt, Scholes, Giggs, Neville were not better than Sharpe, Ince, Hughes, McClair, Parker or Kanchelskis at the time of replacing them, but they grew into a better side because of it.

If we lose Garbutt because of an inability to consider giving him opportunities this would be a mistake. It would be the same sort of short termism that typified the Moyes regime at the end, with players like Barkley and Stones not being given an opportunity.

 

[LinekersLegs]

So you think we should drop or move Baines and so weaken ourselves in the faint hope that Garbutt will eventually be as good as Baines?

The point is who else is as good as Baines or has been? We haven't had a leftback of his quality since the 60's quite why people are so desperate to move him or have him dropped is beyond my comprehension. Especially for a kid with only 4 first team apperances behind in at the age of 21, it's not as if he's set the world alight with his performances either.

But quite a lot of people have also seen him in the youth teams both for everton and England - from what I've seen in those games he isn't that far off Luke Shaw's potential talent.

Whether it develops or if we should do major changes to our squad to accomodate him are different questions.

I personally love Baines and don't much want him to move to midfield whilst he is playing so well in his proper position and think Oviedo also deserves more playing time. But I hope some arrangement can be found to keep Luke.

It is such a shame that Garbutt isn't a right back - Coleman/Garbutt one side and Baines/Oviedo the other would be superb.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

I don't think people are saying drop Baines. We could move Baines either further forward to a left wing position or have him in Barry's position. Alternatively you could play Garbutt left wing. Whichever way you want to permeate it, if you give Garbutt the above impression he will leave.

That is fine, but I do question the long term planning aspect of this. In a position that relies on fitness to be reliant on Baines who has now turned 30 would mark a risk. I also don't think we would be weakening ourselves to play him further forward.

The best manager of recent times for me has been Fergusan, a big part of that was his ability to rebuild sides and look at the long as well as short term. Beckham, Butt, Scholes, Giggs, Neville were not better than Sharpe, Ince, Hughes, McClair, Parker or Kanchelskis at the time of replacing them, but they grew into a better side because of it.

If we lose Garbutt because of an inability to consider giving him opportunities this would be a mistake. It would be the same sort of short termism that typified the Moyes regime at the end, with players like Barkley and Stones not being given an opportunity.

There's a world of difference in being a marauding full back with all the play in front of you as opposed to being a left winger and facing off against a fullback and right sided player. It's a different skill set, we've seen when Moyes tried it with Baines that it doesn't suite his game, why do people think it would suite Garbutts? I've seen no real skill from him that he will beat his man from a standing start he's like Baines and needs to carry the ball from deep with pace to go past people.

People are blowing this lads potential out of all proportions, it's bordering on RAWK levels of delusion given the fact he's played so little but is so highly regarded by some. Martinez has shown one constant since he walked through the door, if there good enough young players will get minutes on the pitch. The fact he didn't even make the bench at the weekend while our first choice international defender was injured indicates maybe he's not really up to the level required at this stage.

As for what Ferguson did at Utd that's a very unique situation and isn't comparable to this situation as all those players went onto have outstanding careers but if they hadn't Ferguson would have had the backing of the board both in the transfer market and with the media and crowd, Martinez won't be afforded that either of those luxuries as we couldn't afford to just by ready made replacements and as we seen this season some people have no loyalty for him at all.

 

[flibbyflob]

Get him to sign a new 5 year deal and promise him you will loan him to another Prem side to get a full year of experience next season and then he can come back as number 1 if he improves. I am sure he would love a year at a promoted side or a team like WBA or Villa.