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Man Utd 0-1 Everton. 4th Dec @ 19.45.

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davek said:
I think a lot of my caution on this is that we have a lot of players who served under Moyes still playing, and they probably still carry a lot of the defeatist stink he imbued them with for these away fixtures against the elite clubs.

Martnez continually stresses in his press conferences that he's having to reinforce the message to our players that they can do certain things and be the players they want to be. They are, without wishing to be too dramatic, scarred by their time under Moyes and his approach to big games.

If we can get them over that psychological hurdle in one or both of the next two games then we really are in business for the rest of the season...even more so if Billy Liar loosens the purse strings and allows Martinez to purchase a player without funding it from a sale.
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I was thinking this at first but when you think about it:

Lukaku, McCarthy, Barry, Deulofeu have no history with Moyes, Oviedo hardly got a look in, Barkley will have a point to prove having been jettisoned to lower leagues and Mirallas seems to like to do his own thing and raises his game against this kind of opposition taking no prisoners (Suarez and Wiltshire spring to mind).

So that bar Pienaar is our entire front unit. just the Centre halves and keeper really and I hope they can put in a top drawer performance.
 
Darth Toffeeman said:
just the Centre halves and keeper really and I hope they can put in a top drawer performance.
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And Jags in particular is suddenly revelling in his new role of being a ball playing CB instead of a hoofballist.

Howard has been a revelation this season with both his shot stopping and his quick delivery when he has the ball in his hands.

They have all been liberated from Moyes's clammy clutches so I think if we do lose come Wednesday it won't be because the ghost of Everton past is stalking the mindset of the players.
 
Darth Toffeeman said:
I was thinking this at first but when you think about it:

Lukaku, McCarthy, Barry, Deulofeu have no history with Moyes, Oviedo hardly got a look in, Barkley will have a point to prove having been jettisoned to lower leagues and Mirallas seems to like to do his own thing and raises his game against this kind of opposition taking no prisoners (Suarez and Wiltshire spring to mind).

So that bar Pienaar is our entire front unit. just the Centre halves and keeper really and I hope they can put in a top drawer performance.
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Good point, yeah. There is a core not infected by Moyes' surrenderism.

I know mick had a laugh before at my comment about players being scarred by Moyes' legacy, but the number of times I've heard Martinez talking about self-belief in relation to our players makes me think his and his first team coaches' biggest task since coming to the club has been to deconstruct and re-educate what are very good players in order for them to function in pressurized situations.
 
davek said:
Good point, yeah. There is a core not infected by Moyes' surrenderism.

I know mick had a laugh before at my comment about players being scarred by Moyes' legacy, but the number of times I've heard Martinez talking about self-belief in relation to our players makes me think his and his first team coaches' biggest task since coming to the club has been to deconstruct and re-educate what are very good players in order for them to function in pressurized situations.
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I actually think it's us fans who need to understand the change in mindset!
Pre derby most fans were hopeful/greatful for a point. TBF a lot only know Smith/Moyes regime so it is understandable. This 'no fear' Everton is alien to fans under 20 years old!
 

Darth Toffeeman said:
I actually think it's us fans who need to understand the change in mindset!
Pre derby most fans were hopeful/greatful for a point. TBF a lot only know Smith/Moyes regime so it is understandable. This 'no fear' Everton is alien to fans under 20 years old!
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I think it's both. But it's only the players that can resolve it. Fans are fans, and will react to the pattern of results.
 
Khalekan said:
And Jags in particular is suddenly revelling in his new role of being a ball playing CB instead of a hoofballist.

Howard has been a revelation this season with both his shot stopping and his quick delivery when he has the ball in his hands.

They have all been liberated from Moyes's clammy clutches so I think if we do lose come Wednesday it won't be because the ghost of Everton past is stalking the mindset of the players.
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Agree mate. The weekend sight of Jags and Distin advancing with ball at feet looking for constructive development in play was a revelation
 

Can't wait for Weds night....in the wrong end but have been there a few times before notably a 3-0 win in 1977 and the 4-4 last season. Ifgenuinely optimistic about coming away with at least a point.
 
davek said:
I think it's both. But it's only the players that can resolve it. Fans are fans, and will react to the pattern of results.
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Of course. I just still think back to that dreadful semi final and the sense of inevitability that seemed to engulf both the fans and players. I still remember coming home that horrible day thinking Moyes was scared, made the players anxious and that feeling engulfed our support. Martinez, although still early days, comes across with a more 'no regrets, just go for it' approach.

I just hope we can put in a performance on Wednesday that will change our perception of these games.
 

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