2019/20 Marcel Brands

[davek]

On the spending drop off case, im afraid that has to be case really. I suspect the next set of accounts will show another big investment from Moshiri, a show of faith in Brands and Silva last summer, its not an insignificant investment again.

In all honestly i can see in this window and the next few he is pulling up the ladder after him. To invest more in the team at this point is to throw petrol on the fire of what is already is there. When you look at the team and squad , its layers of product of 5 different managers with five different football philosophies and zero congruence in planning. Effectively each manager got a few bob, picked up about five players that suited their ideas and disenfranchised the rest. We look at what we are a mismatch of a team built by five different people.

If Moshiri was to throw more money at it, its the same thing again another 4-5 players, on top of a squad of 50, like i say petrol on the fire. Thats before you look at wages we have a wage bill getting very close to 140mill, we wil make probably about 175mill this year. We have other operating costs. of 60 million largely made up of paying of Martinez, Koeman and Allardyce and their coaches and the associated stadium costs. So essentially we are spending just over 200 million a year and making 175, carrying a squad of nearly 50 players with a massive wage bill, without an investor we would be to the pin of our color to pay.

It would be absolutely negligent to the welfare of the club, to bring in any more players until their are outs, simply put the club would be in serious trouble tomorrow if Moshiri walked away tomorrow, not that i think it will.

I would accuse Moshiri as being very committed to Everton but very naive, he has invested a lot of money and likely continues to do so, but many poor decisions have led us to do this point. Chopping and changing the managers and allowing them to invest in players has seen us waste well over 100s million (in fees, wages losses, compensation), for limited return or essentially stand still.

If any other money is investment in players, before outs the situation i describe above is only made worse and bad for the welfare of the club. Outs are the key for us now in terms of regulating our cash flow and resources, time is also needed, as players contracts need to wind down and the legacy of compensation to old managers needs to be done. If we can manage outs, reduce the wage bill, player trade a bit, reduce other operating costs on compensation, we should be coming out of the woods in a couple of years.

The job of Silva and Brands is a three year anti virus job. If we were to throw any more money at its like throwing petrol on the fire and would be very worrying.

To summerise, we are spending, 200 mill, making 175 and have a squad of 50 players - it would be lunacy to add to our cost base. In a weird way Mohirii has invested so much, that the club cant handle the day to day expenses of that investment. But really he has made massively poor decisions on how or who acted on his behalf in actioning that investment.

Given all that, it underlines the character of Moshiri that he could scapegoat Silva at that last AGM - a man in post for months - for three year's worth of his own putrid decision making.

 

[Neiler]

Given all that, it underlines the character of Moshiri that he could scapegoat Silva at that last AGM - a man in post for months - for three year's worth of his own putrid decision making.

It is something that struck me, the lack of self reflection on his behalf was a bit of a concern, a kick up the backside is never any harm if complacent, but Moshiris seemed to have very little understanding of how his decision making was a major overall contribution to the manure show that Silva and Brands have now to deal with and manage. Its far from an easy job for the pair of them.

I find Allardyce very bitter when it comes to us and i can understand that, but i found him talking about the situation day-day at Everton interesting on Thurs night. He was saying he had about 25 players on the training pitch he would involve and another 25 just hanging around, with their hands in their pockets wondering what to do and where to train. He said it was immensely challenging to manage, both practically and to develop a cohesive team spirit in that dynamic. He described how the mood was being brought down on the training ground by almost half the squad not being involved, but couldn't be shifted because of massive contracts and where essentially taking up space, he pretty muchsaid it was unmanagable and he has come across some adverse situations as we know.

I cant imagine the mood behind the scenes being anything else other then toxic still with half the playing squad likely still with their hands in their pockets, no realistic chance of playing and being financially motivated to take care of their own needs and resentment towards lads who are involved. Imagine how divisive that is.

Silva really does have such a difficult job - not of his making. We tend to think of him coming into this job as black canvass, to wave his wand and get a tune out of us, when really both he and Brands have huge legacy issues to deal with, while trying to make the best of us in the present.

 

[MikeH72]

The only teams who really splash the cash in the Top 6 are Man City and Man Utd. Outside of them two, we’ve spent comparable amounts, or in some cases more than the other members.

We should have been in a much stronger position, given our outlay.

After Koeman’s first season, I think we were 16 points clear of 8th place and then we went and spent £230m in one season and went backwards. The level of mismanagement is incomprehensible.

Big Red have bought the world’s most expensive centre back and goalkeeper in the past year and also spent £100m on two substitute midfielders.

 

[davek]

It is something that struck me, the lack of self reflection on his behalf was a bit of a concern, a kick up the backside is never any harm if complacent, but Moshiris seemed to have very little understanding of how his decision making was a major overall contribution to the manure show that Silva and Brands have now to deal with and manage. Its far from an easy job for the pair of them.

I find Allardyce very bitter when it comes to us and i can understand that, but i found him talking about the situation day-day at Everton interesting on Thurs night. He was saying he had about 25 players on the training pitch he would involve and another 25 just hanging around, with their hands in their pockets wondering what to do and where to train. He said it was immensely challenging to manage, both practically and to develop a cohesive team spirit in that dynamic. He described how the mood was being brought down on the training ground by almost half the squad not being involved, but couldn't be shifted because of massive contracts and where essentially taking up space, he pretty muchsaid it was unmanagable and he has come across some adverse situations as we know.

I cant imagine the mood behind the scenes being anything else other then toxic still with half the playing squad likely still with their hands in their pockets, no realistic chance of playing and being financially motivated to take care of their own needs and resentment towards lads who are involved. Imagine how divisive that is.

Silva really does have such a difficult job - not of his making. We tend to think of him coming into this job as black canvass, to wave his wand and get a tune out of us, when really both he and Brands have huge legacy issues to deal with, while trying to make the best of us in the present.

The point you made earlier in this thread about the difficulty for a manager having to get a tune out of a playing squad that has 'generations' of different managers' signings was a very good one. Of course there's always some hangover from one managerial regime to another, but at this club we have players signed a decade ago still involved in the squad. There is, as you said, 4/5 manager's worth of recruitment there and it makes it a nightmare for any manager last into the job to make it work. The DoF role is there to even that out. I understand that. The mass loan scheme fits into that clean up operation. But my gripe is that you cant simply adopt a closed door policy on players until you shift out significant numbers, it;s not fair on the manager to saddle him with a sell to buy policy - which is no wonder he kicked off over any Gueye sale. It's not a virtue in this instance to have an effective no purchase policy especially concerning a striker because we'll need that player anyway come summer and the whole organisation needs a boost right now - we cant afford to crater the remainder of the season and expect a successful summer to come. Brands has, as you say, abdicated his responsibility in this window by simply removing himself from the window and its aftermath and leaving Silva to pick up the pieces....all of which underlines just how much dissonance there is at this club even with a DoF overseeing the model in place.

We are and will remain poorly governed, because there's no acceptance of responsibility at any level of the organisation and we still have policies and agendas that cut across each other. Basically we have one overriding strategy that's been in place for years: get someone to pay for and build a stadium for us and just muddle along with a variety of "solutions" for the core activity of actually playing football. We're a calamity, Brands or not.

 

[MikeH72]

Not sure what Brands has done to earn peoples eternal trust at this moment in time.

He's been in control for two windows now.

Early days yet....

We’ve improved since last season mate, haven’t you heard, we were only on 31 points this time last year.

 

[Brisan123]

I said £20M yesterday, then you came back and stuck by your £80M figure!

Anyway, yes, this January was a bizarrely slow window for sales. However, the damage done by Brands was in the summer when he failed to get fees in for more than two players. He's the architect of his own problems here with so many now out on loan - because he's come up with/agreed to a policy of selling to buy in order to restructure this current squad.

He's either a poor strategist or a doormat for the board...either of which we dont need in a DoF.

His role here is to facilitate a manager - he's failed on that. Utterly.

His job is to facilitate the the manager within the financial constraints of FFP , STCC ( I think that’s the acronym) and the orders of the owner

 

[degsy]

...
...We are and will remain poorly governed, because there's no acceptance of responsibility at any level of the organisation and we still have policies and agendas that cut across each other. Basically we have one overriding strategy that's been in place for years: get someone to pay for and build a stadium for us and just muddle along with a variety of "solutions" for the core activity of actually playing football. We're a calamity, Brands or not.

This.

 

[Brisan123]

It’s - 90 million odd net, if not more.

I’ve seen a figure as high of 7.0 mill for Zouma for the year, like I say though loan figures a speculative, the 7 mill figure in on transfermakdt.

We made about a 7 mill profit on Mori minus liability.
We made 11 mill loss on Klassen when you factor in our liability, that loss is crystallized.

With our expenditure and crystalised loss we are in the red to the tune of about the low- mid - 90 million since Brands came in, I’m not particularly blaming him for that, just analysing. That’s very different from 76 net positively. I haven’t added our out loans because it’s pointless given the unreliable figures, hopefully the deals done could get maybe 10-15 mill to mitigate that.

I think @CRIMHEAD meant we spent 76 m more than we took in
He will correct me if I’m wrong

 

[brieverton]

The heart of the deal between Moshiri and Kenwright was compromise at the clubs expense.

I like Brands, but as others have said, he is trying to operate under a legacy that is a mish-mash of split appointments at board level, as Silva has to juggle players brought in under multiple regimes.

The single thing most lacking is the absence of a credible figure of authority at the club who drives change from the top down.

It is difficult to implement a change agenda under favourable circumstances, but even more so when those who have a legacy of failure remain in place.

DBB's appointment unfortunately epitomises this; promotion based on being matey and not on experience or a record of achievement. Then confounded by an equally uninspiring set of senior management appointments.

This is the environment Brands has to work in.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Big Red have bought the world’s most expensive centre back and goalkeeper in the past year and also spent £100m on two substitute midfielders.

But they’ve done that through selling a world class player in Coutinho for £130m, or whatever it was. Sad thing is, they’ve got money from the CL final and the probable PL win now.

 

[Neiler]

The point you made earlier in this thread about the difficulty for a manager having to get a tune out of a playing squad that has 'generations' of different managers' signings was a very good one. Of course there's always some hangover from one managerial regime to another, but at this club we have players signed a decade ago still involved in the squad. There is, as you said, 4/5 manager's worth of recruitment there and it makes it a nightmare for any manager last into the job to make it work. The DoF role is there to even that out. I understand that. The mass loan scheme fits into that clean up operation. But my gripe is that you cant simply adopt a closed door policy on players until you shift out significant numbers, it;s not fair on the manager to saddle him with a sell to buy policy - which is no wonder he kicked off over any Gueye sale. It's not a virtue in this instance to have an effective no purchase policy especially concerning a striker because we'll need that player anyway come summer and the whole organisation needs a boost right now - we cant afford to crater the remainder of the season and expect a successful summer to come. Brands has, as you say, abdicated his responsibility in this window by simply removing himself from the window and its aftermath and leaving Silva to pick up the pieces....all of which underlines just how much dissonance there is at this club even with a DoF overseeing the model in place.

We are and will remain poorly governed, because there's no acceptance of responsibility at any level of the organisation and we still have policies and agendas that cut across each other. Basically we have one overriding strategy that's been in place for years: get someone to pay for and build a stadium for us and just muddle along with a variety of "solutions" for the core activity of actually playing football. We're a calamity, Brands or not.

I would have a similar but slightly different take mate.

I dont think fairness comes into it to a degree, its simply essential that that the club rationalises its wage bill, anti virus the playing squad and lower the cost base, its vital for us operating on a day to day bases, the welfare of the club is paramount, it trumps bringing in new players to be honest. I still dont think our support base or general media have caught up to the fact to how we are operating at them moment is basket case territory. How we are operating is fine, if for the investment we made we had a squad glittering with sellable assets like City, we simply dont, in fact we have the opposite ever decreasing asses. We essentially brought a house for 1 mill and its now worth about 50k and we have to deal with mortgage repayments on a million and we are earning only about 80% of that. Like you i dont like how Silva was isolated in this window by Brands, its largely due to the victory lap he did after the last window, its poor in my opinion, he needs to front and center and share the heat.

I agree also on the governance of the investments made was massively poorly managed, tahts at the owner and the boards door. Bad management and directors of football are a symptom of poor corporate governance overall. Whether you have faith in changes made or not at board level is subjective, but at least the problem has been identified at the root cause and some remedial action has been taken, that needs time to be evaluated of course.

It falls in Moshiris lap, the poor recruitment or rather the decisions that made it so, hes gone through 4 different managers himself, backing them all and not realising this has led to zero congruence in the blend in the team. Its no coincidence that the most successful managers currently are Pep - three seasons, Klopp - four seasons and Pochentino 5 seasons, are the ones who have been given time to build and have a strategy and congruence to recruitment that has provided a foundation for their progress. When you look at our team its made up of Moyes players, Martinez players, Koeman players, Allardyce players, Silva players. No strategy, no blend, no congruence. It mirrors the whims of our owner chasing instant success, instant success doesnt happen.

You look at the Top 4 clubs and to state the obvious you see it brimming with top quality players in a squad of 25, City in particular, its an arms race, quality and quality of cover in every position. We are the anti City. We have a squad with cover but limited players at a huge cost on a high wage, its very hard to get it as wrong as we have. But its indicative of the whim approach and easy win attitude that has shadowed and befallen the club at great cost.

So presently it is essential for the welfare of the club, to cut the cost base, take our medicine and have a three year approach to building. We need to take the pain. I have sympathy and understanding for Brands and Silva because it is a manure show, it will take time and both managing the legacy of the playing squad from a footballing perspective but from a recruitment/player trading perspective is going to be massively complicated and difficult. Some realism is required. I was amazed last week with the knee jerk reaction and people actually calling for more of the same chopping and changing. Its utter madness.

There should be clear priorities and i agree a striker has to be one, that should be done by player trading and this is where Brands should earn his corn. If we have 50 players in the squad we should be focusing on deals out now and cobble together the price of a deal for a striker, of Moshiri needs to make another investment - something i think he is reluctant to do. I also think we need Gomes and two other midfielders, but thats beside the point.

For me judgement on Brands and Silva has to be tempered some what, if acknowledge things i like about both and critique both based on fair analysis and my own opinion. I think it has to be tempered by the scale of the problem and we are a basket case, how much is a legacy and the reasonable amount of time in expectation to provide some kind of a rescue remedy. As i described in my post above, the business is a basket case at the moment and that largely due to player recruitment, Brands will be working in very limited budgets with very little leverage in regulating the playing squad. Silva has to deal with a basket case of 50 limited players of a different profile day to day. Both have very challenging jobs not of their making underpinned as you say poor corporate governance and an attitude of an easy win by the owner. Hopefully we take ou r medicine and begin to work through the manure show with each passing window.

But patience is required, the scale and job at hand is significant for both Brands and Silva and we can write off a couple of seasons doing the best we can, until the anti virus runs. The competency of each at their jobs needs to be judged in a different more healthy context.

 

[MikeH72]

But they’ve done that through selling a world class player in Coutinho for £130m, or whatever it was. Sad thing is, they’ve got money from the CL final and the probable PL win now.

They’ve always had money and they always outspent more or less everyone else in the league. The CL final money and PL money hasn’t made any different to them, they’ll be one of the richest clubs in the world and will be able to outspend everyone else regardless.

 

[GwladysBlue]

They’ve always had money and they always outspent more or less everyone else in the league. The CL final money and PL money hasn’t made any different to them, they’ll be one of the richest clubs in the world and will be able to outspend everyone else regardless.

They’ve been a selling club for many years, which has helped their spending: Torres, Mascherano, Suarez, Coutinho, etc.

Them now coming good has coincided with the Premier League TV money being at its peak, meaning they probably won’t lose their big stars anymore.

The year they sold Suarez, they replaced him with Ricky Lambert!

 

[ForeverBlue92]

It is something that struck me, the lack of self reflection on his behalf was a bit of a concern, a kick up the backside is never any harm if complacent, but Moshiris seemed to have very little understanding of how his decision making was a major overall contribution to the manure show that Silva and Brands have now to deal with and manage. Its far from an easy job for the pair of them.

I find Allardyce very bitter when it comes to us and i can understand that, but i found him talking about the situation day-day at Everton interesting on Thurs night. He was saying he had about 25 players on the training pitch he would involve and another 25 just hanging around, with their hands in their pockets wondering what to do and where to train. He said it was immensely challenging to manage, both practically and to develop a cohesive team spirit in that dynamic. He described how the mood was being brought down on the training ground by almost half the squad not being involved, but couldn't be shifted because of massive contracts and where essentially taking up space, he pretty muchsaid it was unmanagable and he has come across some adverse situations as we know.

I cant imagine the mood behind the scenes being anything else other then toxic still with half the playing squad likely still with their hands in their pockets, no realistic chance of playing and being financially motivated to take care of their own needs and resentment towards lads who are involved. Imagine how divisive that is.

Silva really does have such a difficult job - not of his making. We tend to think of him coming into this job as black canvass, to wave his wand and get a tune out of us, when really both he and Brands have huge legacy issues to deal with, while trying to make the best of us in the present.

I agree Moshiri needs to be held more to account... however I dont use that as an excuse for Silva poor management this season. We are playing Alladyce lite football at present and the blokes simply incapable of sorting out defending set pieces. Oh and his subs and game management are garbage.

So yes the owner is an idiot however Moyes put up with a skint idiot of an owner and did a half decent job.

The problem is too many fans either blame the owner or manager. BOTH offer us zero leadership at present and thats a major concern.

 

[MikeH72]

They’ve been a selling club for many years, which has helped their spending: Torres, Mascherano, Suarez, Coutinho, etc.

Them now coming good has coincided with the Premier League TV money being at its peak, meaning they probably won’t lose their big stars anymore.

The year they sold Suarez, they replaced him with Ricky Lambert!

The selling players has definitely helped, but they used the excess money to go and spunk £300m on a massive stand so it would’ve been there anyway. They’ve bought really poorly due to terrible management but their managers have never been short of a fee to spend. The only difference now is they’ve unfortunately found someone who knows what he’s doing. I don’t think we’ll ever be at a point where we can outspend them, honestly.