2019/20 Marcel Brands

[GwladysBlue]

The selling players has definitely helped, but they used the excess money to go and spunk £300m on a massive stand so it would’ve been there anyway. They’ve bought really poorly due to terrible management but their managers have never been short of a fee to spend. The only difference now is they’ve unfortunately found someone who knows what he’s doing. I don’t think we’ll ever be at a point where we can outspend them, honestly.

Oh, they’ve definitely had their share of money. They just tended to spent it on rubbish for the most part.

If we had of had competent people spending our money since 2016, I believe that we would have been paying big fees to establish ourselves as a Champions League club by now. As it is, we’ve got another transfer window upcoming that outgoings are going to be the main priority.

 

[MikeH72]

Oh, they’ve definitely had their share of money. They just tended to spent it on rubbish for the most part.

If we had of had competent people spending our money since 2016, I believe that we would have been paying big fees to establish ourselves as a Champions League club by now. As it is, we’ve got another transfer window upcoming that outgoings are going to be the main priority.

Without a doubt. The money we’ve spent is eye watering when you actually look at the squad on paper. Koeman and Walsh did a proper hatchet job on us.

 

[davek]

I would have a similar but slightly different take mate.

I dont think fairness comes into it to a degree, its simply essential that that the club rationalises its wage bill, anti virus the playing squad and lower the cost base, its vital for us operating on a day to day bases, the welfare of the club is paramount, it trumps bringing in new players to be honest. I still dont think our support base or general media have caught up to the fact to how we are operating at them moment is basket case territory. How we are operating is fine, if for the investment we made we had a squad glittering with sellable assets like City, we simply dont, in fact we have the opposite ever decreasing asses. We essentially brought a house for 1 mill and its now worth about 50k and we have to deal with mortgage repayments on a million and we are earning only about 80% of that. Like you i dont like how Silva was isolated in this window by Brands, its largely due to the victory lap he did after the last window, its poor in my opinion, he needs to front and center and share the heat.

I agree also on the governance of the investments made was massively poorly managed, tahts at the owner and the boards door. Bad management and directors of football are a symptom of poor corporate governance overall. Whether you have faith in changes made or not at board level is subjective, but at least the problem has been identified at the root cause and some remedial action has been taken, that needs time to be evaluated of course.

It falls in Moshiris lap, the poor recruitment or rather the decisions that made it so, hes gone through 4 different managers himself, backing them all and not realising this has led to zero congruence in the blend in the team. Its no coincidence that the most successful managers currently are Pep - three seasons, Klopp - four seasons and Pochentino 5 seasons, are the ones who have been given time to build and have a strategy and congruence to recruitment that has provided a foundation for their progress. When you look at our team its made up of Moyes players, Martinez players, Koeman players, Allardyce players, Silva players. No strategy, no blend, no congruence. It mirrors the whims of our owner chasing instant success, instant success doesnt happen.

You look at the Top 4 clubs and to state the obvious you see it brimming with top quality players in a squad of 25, City in particular, its an arms race, quality and quality of cover in every position. We are the anti City. We have a squad with cover but limited players at a huge cost on a high wage, its very hard to get it as wrong as we have. But its indicative of the whim approach and easy win attitude that has shadowed and befallen the club at great cost.

So presently it is essential for the welfare of the club, to cut the cost base, take our medicine and have a three year approach to building. We need to take the pain. I have sympathy and understanding for Brands and Silva because it is a manure show, it will take time and both managing the legacy of the playing squad from a footballing perspective but from a recruitment/player trading perspective is going to be massively complicated and difficult. Some realism is required. I was amazed last week with the knee jerk reaction and people actually calling for more of the same chopping and changing. Its utter madness.

There should be clear priorities and i agree a striker has to be one, that should be done by player trading and this is where Brands should earn his corn. If we have 50 players in the squad we should be focusing on deals out now and cobble together the price of a deal for a striker, of Moshiri needs to make another investment - something i think he is reluctant to do. I also think we need Gomes and two other midfielders, but thats beside the point.

For me judgement on Brands and Silva has to be tempered some what, if acknowledge things i like about both and critique both based on fair analysis and my own opinion. I think it has to be tempered by the scale of the problem and we are a basket case, how much is a legacy and the reasonable amount of time in expectation to provide some kind of a rescue remedy. As i described in my post above, the business is a basket case at the moment and that largely due to player recruitment, Brands will be working in very limited budgets with very little leverage in regulating the playing squad. Silva has to deal with a basket case of 50 limited players of a different profile day to day. Both have very challenging jobs not of their making underpinned as you say poor corporate governance and an attitude of an easy win by the owner. Hopefully we take ou r medicine and begin to work through the manure show with each passing window.

But patience is required, the scale and job at hand is significant for both Brands and Silva and we can write off a couple of seasons doing the best we can, until the anti virus runs. The competency of each at their jobs needs to be judged in a different more healthy context.

The trouble with this prescription (and I acknowledge your advocacy of it as being sound under the financial circumstances that Moshiri has presided over) is that a genie was let out of a lamp when Moshiri arrived. An enormous outpouring of expectation was released. So to now ask fans to temper their view about what's acceptable over the next 2/3 years in a clean up operation is unrealistic. Taking a massive hit in terms of possible spending and seeing the team essentially become uncompetitive for European places is not on anyone's approval list. That kind of prudent short-to-medium-term strategy wont hold. With the best will in the world and with a very fair wind behind him, Silva can only hold off criticism by being given a lot more tools to do the job, because the first team squad is a mess. That will come at a cost that easily outstrips sales of the players we have out on loan. But if you dont give Silva the tools for the job he'll be hounded out and then we're into another round of sackings and hirings that pile more cost onto the club - something we're supposed to be avoiding at all cost. Bottom line: you cant expect a football club company to carry through a recovery strategy like you've outlined.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Im still on the fence about Brands a bit.

There are some things i like and some things i dont thus far to be honest.

I think he has recruited well enough, Digne, Richarlison, Gomes, i think Mina will prove a good signing as i can see his quality - dont like the deal though, wouldn't be a massive fan of Zouma to be honest. I also suspect Silva had a big say in those players.

Something that never gets mentioned is the profile of the signings he has made, he has brought the average age of the squad right down, that is a very very clever.

I like what i heard about him, taking authority in the summer around negotiations, essentially i heard we were making a dogs dinner as usual of closing deals and he benched the usual culprits and did the deals himself.

I like how he kept his powder dry this window and didnt spend anything, that is not an easy thing to do in a new role, club under pressure and obvious gaping holes in the team.

I would also have a bit of understanding for him in terms of the manure show he walked into here, its a very difficult job to manage the legacy of three years of some of the poorest decisions in the clubs history.

Where i would critique him.

I havent seen us sign one academy player or player with potential, from the lower leagues or abroad, i know there are limits on us with the ban but that doesnt mean every young player.

I think the deals out haven't been great, ok hes done deals for loans out and thats fine as a short term measure, but essentially we have 20 odd players returning on loan in the summer and its going to be the same problem again, rinse and repeat. The much maligned Steve Walsh did very well with outs and moving on dead wood permanently.

Personally i, and i know others will think differently, i didnt like the interview after the summer transfer window where he tried to raise his profile and do a victory lap after a popular window. I felt this window he left Silva front line and center to take the heat at a time Silva was under pressure anyway and less popular with fans. Thought it was bit hypocritical and bad form. I dont agree with a DOF doing interviews anyway, but if you do it after a successful window, do it during a painful one too. I admire Silva for keeping his dignity throughout.

I agree with most of this and with 100% of your previous post which pretty much reflected my own views.

The one point I would question is that I think you're being a bit hard on Brands as regards offloading our surplus players. Also in making comparisons to Walsh's successes in that regard. The two tasks are chalk and cheese imo, mainly down to the excessive fees and salaries paid for Walsh's acquisitions. Brands job is so much harder, almost impossible.

 

[JohnJq]

The trouble with this prescription (and I acknowledge your advocacy of it as being sound under the financial circumstances that Moshiri has presided over) is that a genie was let out of a lamp when Moshiri arrived. An enormous outpouring of expectation was released. So to now ask fans to temper their view about what's acceptable over the next 2/3 years in a clean up operation is unrealistic. Taking a massive hit in terms of possible spending and seeing the team essentially become uncompetitive for European places is not on anyone's approval list. That kind of prudent short-to-medium-term strategy wont hold. With the best will in the world and with a very fair wind behind him, Silva can only hold off criticism by being given a lot more tools to do the job, because the first team squad is a mess. That will come at a cost that easily outstrips sales of the players we have out on loan. But if you dont give Silva the tools for the job he'll be hounded out and then we're into another round of sackings and hirings that pile more cost onto the club - something we're supposed to be avoiding at all cost. Bottom line: you cant expect a football club company to carry through a recovery strategy like you've outlined.

Silva took the job knowing the legacy Moyes/Martinez/Koeman/Allardyce players at the club (the same applies for all New managers) so it is not realistic to cite this as a reason for the team's under performance when the player overhaul is still happening quite fast. The outfield first team is now largely composed of his chosen players (Zouma/Gomes/Bernard/Richarlisson/Mina) which presumably had been identified as priorities based on his intended playing system. He would never have been allowed free rein to replace every single player within less than 3 seasons, it would never make financial sense.

 

[Blue Roo]

Does he? Provide the evidence for that statement. He's an accountant who managed Usmanov's money and was rewarded for it by being handed a 5% stake in one of Usmanov's businesses...an energy business which he grabbed off the state in the wild west days of the breaking up of the Soviet economy. Moshiri is not an entrepreniur; he's not a creative mind. He squireled away billions in the west for Usmanov. That's all. Being in thrall to the likes of Moshiri - a bag carrier - is ridiculous.

That's one take on it.
And you can add Moshiri's British citizenship to Usmanov association.

Sure there's a lot of opportunism and corruption associated with it all.
But there has to be a level of competency and qualities attached to the opportunity for it to pay dividends.
Why them and not someone else?
It would be incredibly western imperialist and condescending of us to be morally judgmental and dismissive of the rest of the world for getting richer.
To not understand that this will involve some sort of Darwinian sorting out process (including corruption and the like) makes it even more so.

Another perspective is there's 1.7b worth of responsibility in that bag Moshiri's carrying.
And while he got 5% of one of Usmanov's company back then, he is now worth roughly 13% of Usmanov's total wealth.

Like a lot of rich people they're pretty thick with the basics of communication. Even worse than that , when they stray into business they're unfamiliar with, and try and transport whatever meagre talents they do have, they make huge and costly errors.

This is just utter nonsense. He is not an idiot, fool or embarrassment. For a start he's self made (to the extent that it matters) not some archaic, blood riddled aristocrat.
But really, I think your misconstruing the difference between qualities required for business at a certain level and qualities of running and communicating to a football club. Yes, in the later he is out of his depth.
These are two different spheres...at least, they should be.
And yes he's made fumbling mistakes in trying to cross over.
And its not just at Everton that this happens.

What should be of interest is whether lessons are learnt and things change for the better.
I sincerely hope that Everton can show the way.
Bringing Brands onto the Board is hopefully the first step in the right direction.

As supporters I think we should be demanding transparency, for starters.
If we don't become a force the right path forward will not eventuate.

And dialogue and conversation about what that path looks like.
Dave, I reckon, on this forum at least, you lead the way with a lot of things in this respect.
But statements like the above don't really help.
There has to be a place for Moshiri, or the like, if we are going to be competitive in the feckless world that football has become.

I think its worth considering - what us winning the title, the cup, ends up looking like.
Will it be soulful, or soulless.
And truly believe that Everton is the club to be the later.
(Forgive any sentimentality, was just youtubing the 66 cup again, it helps keeps the faith)

 

[Blue Roo]

The trouble with this prescription (and I acknowledge your advocacy of it as being sound under the financial circumstances that Moshiri has presided over) is that a genie was let out of a lamp when Moshiri arrived. An enormous outpouring of expectation was released. So to now ask fans to temper their view about what's acceptable over the next 2/3 years in a clean up operation is unrealistic. Taking a massive hit in terms of possible spending and seeing the team essentially become uncompetitive for European places is not on anyone's approval list. That kind of prudent short-to-medium-term strategy wont hold. With the best will in the world and with a very fair wind behind him, Silva can only hold off criticism by being given a lot more tools to do the job, because the first team squad is a mess. That will come at a cost that easily outstrips sales of the players we have out on loan. But if you dont give Silva the tools for the job he'll be hounded out and then we're into another round of sackings and hirings that pile more cost onto the club - something we're supposed to be avoiding at all cost. Bottom line: you cant expect a football club company to carry through a recovery strategy like you've outlined.

The first step out of this mess is to find a manager (leader) who can actually be competitive and have em playing good football with whatever he is handed. Imo Silva isn't that man (happy to be proven wrong but has shown little yet), so we need to find one.

 

[Simon Buttle]

The trouble with this prescription (and I acknowledge your advocacy of it as being sound under the financial circumstances that Moshiri has presided over) is that a genie was let out of a lamp when Moshiri arrived. An enormous outpouring of expectation was released. So to now ask fans to temper their view about what's acceptable over the next 2/3 years in a clean up operation is unrealistic. Taking a massive hit in terms of possible spending and seeing the team essentially become uncompetitive for European places is not on anyone's approval list. That kind of prudent short-to-medium-term strategy wont hold. With the best will in the world and with a very fair wind behind him, Silva can only hold off criticism by being given a lot more tools to do the job, because the first team squad is a mess. That will come at a cost that easily outstrips sales of the players we have out on loan. But if you dont give Silva the tools for the job he'll be hounded out and then we're into another round of sackings and hirings that pile more cost onto the club - something we're supposed to be avoiding at all cost. Bottom line: you cant expect a football club company to carry through a recovery strategy like you've outlined.

The thing is though, a good coach/manager should be able to work with whats there and at least be able to setup a system suited to what he has to work with. Silva still does not seem to really know what his best team is at times, he is totally unwilling to change things around tactics wise a lot of the time and often looks lost on the sidelines. Now i agree that i expected more help from above given that we keep going on about the so called 'project' and im still fuming at how Walsh/Koeman have been able to do what they did with seemingly no supervision whatsoever from above. However i don't think even if we had brought in the mythical striker and others that Silva is our man long term, i don't think he will ever get us where we want to be whatever resources you give him.

 

[davek]

Silva took the job knowing the legacy Moyes/Martinez/Koeman/Allardyce players at the club (the same applies for all New managers) so it is not realistic to cite this as a reason for the team's under performance when the player overhaul is still happening quite fast. The outfield first team is now largely composed of his chosen players (Zouma/Gomes/Bernard/Richarlisson/Mina) which presumably had been identified as priorities based on his intended playing system. He would never have been allowed free rein to replace every single player within less than 3 seasons, it would never make financial sense.

It's not a matter of replacing every player other mangers bought. It's a matter of getting in good players where we are crying out for them. If he's being told that he has to focus on one player at a time each window because of the devaluation of the players out on loan then he'll have to sign a lot more utility players to plug gaps. That's what Moyes had to do too. So we're effectively going backward.

 

[davek]

The first step out of this mess is to find a manager (leader) who can actually be competitive and have em playing good football with whatever he is handed. Imo Silva isn't that man (happy to be proven wrong but has shown little yet), so we need to find one.

No one can do that. The first team squad is not fit for purpose if your objective is to crack the top 6. If you want a top half team then yeah, I suppose this lot could get us 8th, 9th or 10th. But most wont be happy with that.

So the owner needs to STFU criticising his manager for being midtable and the DoF needs to start handing the manager bullets to fire by selling a few players rather than loaning them all so he can get his targets in.

 

[davek]

The thing is though, a good coach/manager should be able to work with whats there and at least be able to setup a system suited to what he has to work with. Silva still does not seem to really know what his best team is at times, he is totally unwilling to change things around tactics wise a lot of the time and often looks lost on the sidelines. Now i agree that i expected more help from above given that we keep going on about the so called 'project' and im still fuming at how Walsh/Koeman have been able to do what they did with seemingly no supervision whatsoever from above. However i don't think even if we had brought in the mythical striker and others that Silva is our man long term, i don't think he will ever get us where we want to be whatever resources you give him.

I dont know whether Silva is the answer or not. I do know that if we're restructuring this dogs breakfast of a squad piecemeal then the manager has to be cut a lot of slack. He;'s been here 6 months and it seems to me he might have been lured here by talk of spending and suddenly the belt is getting tightened.

 

[Simon Buttle]

I dont know whether Silva is the answer or not. I do know that if we're restructuring this dogs breakfast of a squad piecemeal then the manager has to be cut a lot of slack. He;'s been here 6 months and it seems to me he might have been lured here by talk of spending and suddenly the belt is getting tightened.

We have to stick with him for the moment tbh as the other possible options (similar types of manager that Marcel would probably look at) are all newly in jobs or about to go into new jobs at the end of the season, there is not a huge amount of choice about at the moment in terms of managers

 

[Frang]

The first step out of this mess is to find a manager (leader) who can actually be competitive and have em playing good football with whatever he is handed. Imo Silva isn't that man (happy to be proven wrong but has shown little yet), so we need to find one.

a coach who actually improves players... well well well… I look forward to the day when Everton realise this is the way forward

 

[Toffeelover]

The majority was wasted.

Bolasie 25m
Tosun 27m
Klaassen 24m
Snides 24m plus 5m per year contract
Sandro given a 5m per year contract

I consider that wasted.

We have spent over 300m on players and IMO the squad has gone backwards.

And who were the managers?

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Buy nobody but goalscorers in the summer. No quality in the final third at all.