Martinez new Belgium head coach

[davek]

For all the talk of how good that season under Martinez was, which it was... It was ace, we only improved on the previous season by 1 league place - hardly a major success story. What it actually was was the perfect platform to continue to improve, but he couldn't.

I don't think he was a fraud, but he was out of his depth and should have swallowed his pride and changed his failing system. Ultimately I think it was his stubbornness which resulted in such toxicity (boss album that) towards him and cost him his job, he needed to shake up training/tactics but refused.

I will never forgive him for making me not want to watch Everton anymore and he ultimately achieved nothing, but both sides of this argument are overstated

How many managers coming into a club that had secured 6th spot would increase the next season's tally by 9 points?

It was an incredible effort mate.

I can safely say that in the next decade we will wont see another season when we win 21 games...the only time we've broken 20 wins per season since we won the title 30 years ago...and then there were 42 games.

 

[Goat]

How many managers coming into a club that had secured 6th spot would increase the next season's tally by 9 points?

It was an incredible effort mate.

I can safely say that in the next decade we will wont see another season when we win 21 games...the only time we've broken 20 wins per season since we won the title 30 years ago...and then there were 42 games.

We probably wont ever have a season in which we only win 4 home games all season for another 30 years either.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

We probably wont ever have a season in which we only win 4 home games all season for another 30 years either.

That was the fans fault though mate. We weren't making enough noise for the tepid sideways passing

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Moyes has had money in his managerial career. he spent it on the likes of Bily, Kroldrup, Simon Davies and James Beattie. He had money at United and couldnt think of anything better than to attempt to buy two of our players who he already knew.

He certainly isnt (or wasnt, I think he is done now) a bad manager, far from it, he did a cracking job with us generally but his mindset meant that he would never win anything as he always erred on the side of caution. Classic overthinker maybe, I dont know.

It was annoying to me because as Mikey says above, we played some cracking football under Moyes so it always baffled me that whenever we would come into a big game we would crap ourselves and go back into our shells. We didnt have to do that as we had some very capable sides and I think that is an issue that is still at the club as well as what Martinez left behind.

I hold the players just as responsible for shirking responsibility sometimes. Its the reason we are currently hyping Davies up, he takes the ball and goes at the opposition, the likes of barry and co just want it away from goal or hoofed to Romelu.

There are a lot of fans from moyes era to man city last week, screaming for us to attack teams including united and arsenal or Liverpool. We cannot just go out and perform every week like city, eventually you get picked off. Its a rare time when Everton will win 4-0 with four shots on target. The defensive frailties are still there from Martinez reign, but the players themselves need to take responsibility as well as the manager.

 

[Titus Bramble]

How many managers coming into a club that had secured 6th spot would increase the next season's tally by 9 points?

It was an incredible effort mate.

I can safely say that in the next decade we will wont see another season when we win 21 games...the only time we've broken 20 wins per season since we won the title 30 years ago...and then there were 42 games.

Like I said, it was an ace season which gave us all optimism that we could build on it. But the black and white of it is we improved by 1 place and got to the same stage in both cups as the season before. The real success would have been if we continued improving, but we got worse

 

[davek]

Like I said, it was an ace season which gave us all optimism that we could build on it. But the black and white of it is we improved by 1 place and got to the same stage in both cups as the season before. The real success would have been if we continued improving, but we got worse

I agree. It fell away badly.

There was plenty of blame to go round for that slide, but the buck stops with the manager who pays the ultimate price.

As a reminder of who we are as a club and what's possible though, that first season was like a drowning man coming up to the surface and gulping a lung full of air in - before going under again. He desperately needs to resurface soon.

 

[mkrudden]

I agree. It fell away badly.

There was plenty of blame to go round for that slide, but the buck stops with the manager who pays the ultimate price.

As a reminder of who we are as a club and what's possible though, that first season was like a drowning man coming up to the surface and gulping a lung full of air in - before going under again. He desperately needs to resurface soon.

Couldn't believe that first season. Our Everton getting on the ball and taking the game to the opposition.

I miss it to be honest. I understood why he had to go, especially when it became clear that our defensive fragilities were based on a lack of coaching Monday to Friday.

I just think also alot of stuff went against him that wasn't of his own making:

Howard
Distin
Pienaar

^all players he heavily relied upon in his first season but then whose form / fitness fell off a cliff. All in the season post-spending his entire transfer kitty on Lukaku.

Stuff like Niasse though doesn't exactly help his cause on reflection.

A good manager imo who will do very well with Belgium.

 

[MikeH72]

Couldn't believe that first season. Our Everton getting on the ball and taking the game to the opposition.

I miss it to be honest. I understood why he had to go, especially when it became clear that our defensive fragilities were based on a lack of coaching Monday to Friday.

I just think also alot of stuff went against him that wasn't of his own making:

Howard
Distin
Pienaar

^all players he heavily relied upon in his first season but then whose form / fitness fell off a cliff. All in the season post-spending his entire transfer kitty on Lukaku.

Stuff like Niasse though doesn't exactly help his cause on reflection.

A good manager imo who will do very well with Belgium.

Where is the evidence to support this? Taken a team from 11th to 18th (R), moved on and took his next club from 5th to 13th.

 

[mkrudden]

Where is the evidence to support this? Taken a team from 11th to 18th (R), moved on and took his next club from 5th to 13th.

My eyes and my opinion Michael.
I was specifically talking about his first season where we went from 6th to 5th.
After that, whilst I believe there were some mitigating circumstances, our defence was just too poor. He had to go.

 

[MikeH72]

My eyes and my opinion Michael.
I was specifically talking about his first season where we went from 6th to 5th.
After that, whilst I believe there were some mitigating circumstances, our defence was just too poor. He had to go.

He's literally had that one good season in his career, the mitigating circumstances were him being dreadful at his job.

 

[mkrudden]

He's literally had that one good season in his career, the mitigating circumstances were him being dreadful at his job.

And fair play to you if you think that.
I mean this with absolute affection - just because you loathe him and believe him to be the worst PL manager of all time, I won't change my opinion.
I am obviously in a minority with tangerine head and that by pure numbers probably proves we are talking tosh.
I liked him, I liked the brand of football, I liked the way Everton were on the ball trying to create, I liked the way he brought kids into the team.

 

[MikeH72]

And fair play to you if you think that.
I mean this with absolute affection - just because you loathe him and believe him to be the worst PL manager of all time, I won't change my opinion.
I am obviously in a minority with tangerine head and that by pure numbers probably proves we are talking tosh.
I liked him, I liked the brand of football, I liked the way Everton were on the ball trying to create, I liked the way he brought kids into the team.

Crying at that.

Fair enough if you liked it, but I genuinely hated having to turn up to Goodison to watch our pathetic attempts to play out from the back and watching Tim Howard dive out the way of shots for 2 years. We were never going to play like Barcelona which is what he wanted and deluded himself into thinking we could do, just look at the state of that squad he assembled.

 

[degsy]

And fair play to you if you think that.
I mean this with absolute affection - just because you loathe him and believe him to be the worst PL manager of all time, I won't change my opinion.
I am obviously in a minority with tangerine head and that by pure numbers probably proves we are talking tosh.
I liked him, I liked the brand of football, I liked the way Everton were on the ball trying to create, I liked the way he brought kids into the team.

I liked the 72pts
I liked the 'Idea, concept, etc' of what Martinez wanted to do, but it wasn't working, he might've changed it about a bit, but couldn't or wouldn't. We were only going one way, stagnation would've been the best we could hope for...at worst we might have had a Mike Walker Mk II without the happy ending and eventual sacking

 

[davek]

Couldn't believe that first season. Our Everton getting on the ball and taking the game to the opposition.

I miss it to be honest. I understood why he had to go, especially when it became clear that our defensive fragilities were based on a lack of coaching Monday to Friday.

I just think also alot of stuff went against him that wasn't of his own making:

Howard
Distin
Pienaar

^all players he heavily relied upon in his first season but then whose form / fitness fell off a cliff. All in the season post-spending his entire transfer kitty on Lukaku.

Stuff like Niasse though doesn't exactly help his cause on reflection.

A good manager imo who will do very well with Belgium.

To make progress on that first season required an upgrade in playing staff. He needed better players to make his way of playing possible after season one because other teams had begun to figure out how to shackle Everton at home by the end of that campaign. Many point to the Palace home game in that first season as the first signs of that. Probably accurately in retrospect. We needed the tempo lifted and a live wire creative player up front to help us break down the parasitical teams who came to GP to sit back and "earn" a point. However, in that summer we didn't change the personnel too much to achieve an increased tempo and, in fact, we slowed the play down too much in that second season. He did try and bring a creative force in through Eto'o, but it didn't work out.

The tempo did rise again in season three with the addition of Lennon and Mori, the reintroduction of Deulofeu, and Galloway coming through, but it all ebbed away again in the second half of the season. Ultimately Martinez couldn't win ugly and consistently go to the safer game to see out matches from winning positions.

All in all it was an interesting and enjoyable first 18 months of his time here while the last 18 months were unenjoyable other than the attacking flair on offer and two cup runs which, with a bit more bottle from the players, could have been historic.

You wont see that under Koeman. He'll be up and down in terms of results with long streaks of results with no wins followed by long streaks of games with no losses, but we'll hover between 10th and 7th for the vast majority of his time here...and the football will be of a more meat and potato variety.

 

[Ashtonian]

How many managers coming into a club that had secured 6th spot would increase the next season's tally by 9 points?

It was an incredible effort mate.

I can safely say that in the next decade we will wont see another season when we win 21 games...the only time we've broken 20 wins per season since we won the title 30 years ago...and then there were 42 games.

Ok.

One question. Is martinez was such a good prospect of a manager and we were wrong to hound him out the club.

Why has he only had one good season in what, 7 years? He had enough time at wigan and took them backwards. He got given over 40 million to spend the summer after finishing 5th which was massive for us considering not long before that we gave the manager nothing. And he took that money, invested it, and done worse. In fact when he was building his team at both clubs the results got worse.

So why was that the case? Why couldn't martinez have a good season beyond his first year here?