Martinez new Belgium head coach

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Lol, you're making my point for me.

Hang on a minute. Europa league football was all we achieved during the fabled "Camelot season". If you dismiss this season you must also dismiss it that season otherwise you'd be a hypocrite with double standards and an agenda and we all know you'd never do that.

 

[davek]

Hang on a minute. Europa league football was all we achieved during the fabled "Camelot season". If you dismiss this season you must also dismiss it that season otherwise you'd be a hypocrite with double standards and an agenda and we all know you'd never do that.

The 2013/14 Camelot season stood out for 21 wins and the highest PL points total. That and the cup win he got at Wigan and his reputation for being an attacking coach got him the Belgian job and a crack at a world cup final appearance.

 

[ilikecheese]

It was vastly superior to anything Martinez served up. He had three seasons that were by far better then the fluke 2013-14 season. He came but and left us in much better shape then when he arrived contrast that with Martinez who set us back years and also won nothing.

Meh...he finished bottom half in two of his first four seasons and nearly got us relegated. Got to the round of 16 in Europe once. Made one Cup final and two semis...in 11 seasons.

Martinez nearly matched all of those 'achievements' in three seasons...bar the almost getting us relegated.

If 13/14 was a fluke 04-05 was a bigger fluke.

 

[davek]

Meh...he finished bottom half in two of his first four seasons and nearly got us relegated. Got to the round of 16 in Europe once. Made one Cup final and two semis...in 11 seasons.

Martinez nearly matched all of those 'achievements' in three seasons...bar the almost getting us relegated.

If 13/14 was a fluke 04-05 was a bigger fluke.

He'll probably fluke getting the Belgians into the World Cup with a record qualifying points tally too.

 

[ilikecheese]

He'll probably fluke getting the Belgians into the World Cup with a record qualifying points tally too.

I do think he's probably better suited to manage a national team.

There is no doubt that our fitness levels eroded under him. If he's going to come back to manage a club at some point I would hope he's learned that lesson. The hard work must be done...can't expect players to manage their own fitness. Humans are lazy by nature and must be pushed.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Meh...he finished bottom half in two of his first four seasons and nearly got us relegated. Got to the round of 16 in Europe once. Made one Cup final and two semis...in 11 seasons.

Martinez nearly matched all of those 'achievements' in three seasons...bar the almost getting us relegated.

If 13/14 was a fluke 04-05 was a bigger fluke.

We probly shouldn't clog this thrend up with more Martinez Vs Moyes arguments so I'll just put this and leave it.

Moyes took over a side that had almost unceasingly been involved in relegation scraps for a decade when he took over. In his first full season we finished seventh which at the time was our second highest place finish of the Premier League era. 2003-04 was a disaster no doubt about it but we were never really in relegation trouble we just royally collapsed. He'd almost certainly of been sacked had we seen a repeat of that in 04-05 but we didn't and we all know what happened that season. It stands today as our best finish of the Premier League era. Was it a fluke? Possibly but not by much as we consistently remained around the top 6 after that. In eleven full seasons we only spent two of them outside the top half of the table. Contrast that to Martinez who did it in three and back to back aswell! Moyes left this club better then when he joined, Martinez left it in worse shape. Even in 03-04 We won more home league matches then we did in 2014-15 or 15-16.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

He'll probably fluke getting the Belgians into the World Cup with a record qualifying points tally too.

Roy Hodgson did well with England in the qualifiers. It didn't make him a good manager either.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

The 2013/14 Camelot season stood out for 21 wins and the highest PL points total. That and the cup win he got at Wigan and his reputation for being an attacking coach got him the Belgian job and a crack at a world cup final appearance.

It was a fifth place finish and got us Europa League football. 7th place under Koeman gets us the same this season. I could bang on about Koeman winning eight home games on the bounce as though that was a real achevent but it isn't any more then 2013-14 was.

 

[davek]

I do think he's probably better suited to manage a national team.

There is no doubt that our fitness levels eroded under him. If he's going to come back to manage a club at some point I would hope he's learned that lesson. The hard work must be done...can't expect players to manage their own fitness. Humans are lazy by nature and must be pushed.

His undoing was that Moyes signed cowards - men who could only be barked at and had no free will themselves.

 

[RaleighBlue]

He was a fatally flawed manager in the end that had a brief window of excellence. His inability to adapt will lead to him forever being a journeyman at best.

Moyes was all of the above things as well. They are much of a muchness. We can argue about how he 'solidified' us all we want. But in truth he was Tony Pulis or Sam Allardyce given free reign for 11 seasons. They also solidify teams, hit a glass ceiling and go no further.

Koeman currently has us where Moyes did.

We have the same inferiority complex that we've had since Moyes' heydey. We are incapable of stepping up when it matters, see Anfield; neither Martinez or Koeman has changed that one iota regardless of their other positives or negatives. If Koeman changes that, great. But Martinez was not the only thing rotten at Goodison, make no mistake - the mentality of perpetual failure continues to hang around like a bad smell, and if we ever achieve what we all desire that needs to be dealt with tout suite.

Martinez was a failure in large part because he couldn't change our assumption of failure.

 

[hktoffee]

It was a fifth place finish and got us Europa League football. 7th place under Koeman gets us the same this season. I could bang on about Koeman winning eight home games on the bounce as though that was a real achevent but it isn't any more then 2013-14 was.

Why did he keep saying 72 points in one season when he forgot 2 seasons of crap thereafter? Martinez is a terrible manager and a fraud of the highest order.

 

[hktoffee]

I do think he's probably better suited to manage a national team.

There is no doubt that our fitness levels eroded under him. If he's going to come back to manage a club at some point I would hope he's learned that lesson. The hard work must be done...can't expect players to manage their own fitness. Humans are lazy by nature and must be pushed.

Will he? 70% fitness? You know he is too stubborn to change.

Will he practice defending setpieces?

 

[hktoffee]

The 2013/14 Camelot season stood out for 21 wins and the highest PL points total. That and the cup win he got at Wigan and his reputation for being an attacking coach got him the Belgian job and a crack at a world cup final appearance.

A list of Belgian managers.

Wilmots, Leekens, Advocaat, Vandereycken, Anthuenis, Waseige.

What do you find in common?

Coaching a national team does not mean you are a good manager.

 

[hktoffee]

Meh...he finished bottom half in two of his first four seasons and nearly got us relegated. Got to the round of 16 in Europe once. Made one Cup final and two semis...in 11 seasons.

Martinez nearly matched all of those 'achievements' in three seasons...bar the almost getting us relegated.

If 13/14 was a fluke 04-05 was a bigger fluke.

He had no money at the time how much his budget was back then per season?

He took over a Walter Smith team filled with the like in Gemmill and Pembridge and was the right man back in 2002. If Martinez had such resources with that Walter Smith team then he would have relegate us.

 

[hktoffee]

I do think he's probably better suited to manage a national team.

There is no doubt that our fitness levels eroded under him. If he's going to come back to manage a club at some point I would hope he's learned that lesson. The hard work must be done...can't expect players to manage their own fitness. Humans are lazy by nature and must be pushed.

Yes then he can't relegate a club.

And the clubs will do the fitness things for their players instead.