Martinez new Belgium head coach

[Armel]

You'd have to imagine that will increase if they decide to keep him on?

It's with bonuses but it's not a whole lot actually because of the financial situation of the KBVB (Belgian FA). I do assume that in the case of a prolongation that there will be a big rise.

Belgian FA isn't an institution you join to for the money. Henry gives his money away. As do the majority of the players, they give it to disabled children and such. That's why they do all these public campaigns.

The plus side of not earning a lot of money (compared to others) is that there isn't a lot of pressure and you can keep doing your television work and stuff like that.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

With a squad as good as Belgium, the question really is what constitutes success in that scenario?

I've said earlier in this thread that Quarter Finals should be enough for him in his first tournament, but after that you'd expect him to kick on in the Euros

To be honest though, it'd probably be best for everyone involved if he left voluntarily after the World Cup. History has proven that the longer Roberto Martinez spends as manager of a team the worse they get. Taking out the Cup win for Wigan in his last season (In which they had a pretty soft run to the Final all truth told), he took a stable Premier League side and relegated them over the course of a few seasons down solely to his poor defensive tactics. His brand of football may work in one off Cup matches, but when it comes to the long grind of a season or qualifying campaign he's always progressively gotten worse

Against Greece at home they were already starting to exhibit all the warning signs of his final two seasons with us when it came to games at Goodison. You have to think that'll only get worse over time

If Tony Adams fails at Granada next season, it might be a good match for them if they approach Martinez following the World Cup. He'd probably be able to get them back into La Liga and then have them hovering just above safety for a couple of seasons whilst having a nice run in the Cup. That would be fine at a club of that standing, a good fit all round

 

[Armel]

With a squad as good as Belgium, the question really is what constitutes success in that scenario?

I've said earlier in this thread that Quarter Finals should be enough for him in his first tournament, but after that you'd expect him to kick on in the Euros

To be honest though, it'd probably be best for everyone involved if he left voluntarily after the World Cup. History has proven that the longer Roberto Martinez spends as manager of a team the worse they get. Taking out the Cup win for Wigan in his last season (In which they had a pretty soft run to the Final all truth told), he took a stable Premier League side and relegated them over the course of a few seasons down solely to his poor defensive tactics. His brand of football may work in one off Cup matches, but when it comes to the long grind of a season or qualifying campaign he's always progressively gotten worse

Against Greece at home they were already starting to exhibit all the warning signs of his final two seasons with us when it came to games at Goodison. You have to think that'll only get worse over time

If Tony Adams fails at Granada next season, it might be a good match for them if they approach Martinez following the World Cup. He'd probably be able to get them back into La Liga and then have them hovering just above safety for a couple of seasons whilst having a nice run in the Cup. That would be fine at a club of that standing, a good fit all round

Quarter finals would be fine.

A lot depends on the fitness of the defensive players. If some are injured he has a big problem. The ideal situation would be one where Kompany is there to boss the defence (It's like with Man City; he has a huge impact), then they have a good chance. Same goes for Engels, it would be a big plus if he could stay fit and move abroad. If they are present and Hazard and KDB are on their game; you can't do a lot wrong tbh.

I assume if he has a good WC that he'll leave to earn some more money elsewhere.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

And what if you think you didn't do a bad job or your colleagues were all knobheads who didn't do what you asked of them? Pushing for what you are legally owed does not make you a bad person.

Martinez has not gone there for money or anything anyway, its an opportunity to rebuild his battered reputation.

Perils of senior management #standard

If he'd have not had £10m shoved in his arse pocket he'd be taking Hull down at the minute......

 

[Kenshin]

What?!

http://www.managerstats.co.uk/clubs/everton/



How has destroyed two clubs? Which ones? The Swansea he picked up from obscurity and put them back on the map? A minnow club like Wigan he gave a trophy to and it'll be the first and last they ever win? The Everton team he had playing and winning record number of games with? The Belgian team he's yet to see defeat with in qualifying?

The best anyone could argue against Martinez is that he's failed to sustain the promise he brought to some of those jobs. But the heights he's hit along the way deserve respect, because they're something this current Everton manager couldn't ever do...not in a month of Sundays.

I personally hope he gets the Belgians to the WC finals and they go a long way in that tournament.

How has destroyed two clubs? Which ones? The Swansea he picked up from obscurity and put them back on the map? A minnow club like Wigan he gave a trophy to and it'll be the first and last they ever win? The Everton team he had playing and winning record number of games with? The Belgian team he's yet to see defeat with in qualifying?

The same wigan who went into free fall once he left the club relegated to the championship? Doesn't matter they won the FA cup, i am sure the fan base would regulary have top flight football over winning a trophy especially as that trophy cost them top flight status. Everton winning a record number of games? The same everton losing a record number at home, or winning a record fewest at home? Very easy to spin it to sound better.

The best anyone could argue against Martinez is that he's failed to sustain the promise he brought to some of those jobs. But the heights he's hit along the way deserve respect, because they're something this current Everton manager couldn't ever do...not in a month of Sundays.

Which promise is this? Generally the opinion from what i remember was that martinez looked to be a manager who might be a decent prospect but at the same time just got relegated and had a history of thumping defeats, not to mention terrible transfer market record on the whole. for every good signing there was a bad one following it. either way there was zero excitement and most of us knew weeks in advance the easiest appointment was the spanish fella available down the road.

but can you answer me a question Dave? (assuming the name is dave k)

also assuming you are a match goer regularly, what were your personal thoughts last season when we kept getting beat? With our lowest wins at home, most defeats at home etc season, what did you genuinely think of it all? Considering the season before we got nowhere as well?

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

also assuming you are a match goer regularly, what were your personal thoughts last season when we kept getting beat? With our lowest wins at home, most defeats at home etc season, what did you genuinely think of it all?

I can field this because I remember it vividly, although I'm sure he'll remember it differently

He blamed the home fans for it, saying we weren't backing the team enough and that's why we were losing, because we weren't swooning over the sideways passing and treating Martinez like a demi-God

It's in the Everton Forum somewhere

And I won't claim that the atmosphere was pleasant, but it wasn't the reason we were losing. It was merely a symptom, not the cause

 

[Papa Shango]

I don't think people realize just how small a club Wigan are.....

 

[Kenshin]

I can field this because I remember it vividly, although I'm sure he'll remember it differently

He blamed the home fans for it, saying we weren't backing the team enough and that's why we were losing, because we weren't swooning over the sideways passing and treating Martinez like a demi-God

It's in the Everton Forum somewhere

And I won't claim that the atmosphere was pleasant, but it wasn't the reason we were losing. It was merely a symptom, not the cause

wow, i remember martinez blaming the fans at the time as well!

Not sure how it could be the fans fault, i personally didn't get up 19 times and think i am going to be miserable for the next 2 hours and pay 600 or whatever quid to have access to it. I went with the hope of a win and 2 months down the line following on from the [Poor language removed] of the previous season, it was impossible to get your hopes up, With nothing changing neither. The derby was the pinnacle of how terrible it was, they sack their martinez, we kept ours.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I don't think people realize just how small a club Wigan are.....

They were in 11th under Bruce and doing just fine. They probably weren't getting any further than that but they were holding their own

Small club though they may be, it doesn't give him a get out of jail free card for relegating them, especially when their relegation wasn't down to size but down to the tactics employed. The proof that is the pudding is when those same tactics went on to scupper us as well, even though we had better players than Wigan did

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I don't think people realize just how small a club Wigan are.....

They spent eight years in the Premier league mate. They felt like a regular fixture that wasn't going anywere and they would if stayed that way had they kept a manager who understood that making your side difficult to beat is more important then making them look good by playing "exciting" football. This small club nonsense is just football snobbery, for eight years they were one of the twenty best football teams in this country. Numerous managers successfully kept them in the league, and Bruce even gave them a mid table finish. It was Martinez who got them relegated and started the rot that has contaminated that club.

 

[Papa Shango]

They were in 11th under Bruce and doing just fine. They probably weren't getting any further than that but they were holding their own

Small club though they may be, it doesn't give him a get out of jail free card for relegating them, especially when their relegation wasn't down to size but down to the tactics employed. The proof that is the pudding is when those same tactics went on to scupper us as well, even though we had better players than Wigan did

Not saying it does. All I am saying is that anybody saying that Wigan going down to the lower leagues is something that was more than likely going to happen regardless of a manager who left them 4 years ago.

Flitting between the Championship and League One is realistically about their level.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

i personally didn't get up 19 times and think i am going to be miserable for the next 2 hours and pay 600 or whatever quid to have access to it. I went with the hope of a win

Exactly, none of us were going to Goodison wanting to have a bad time, but we're only human and when you serve up the horrible product we were getting in those last two seasons then it's only natural that it would lead to a sour atmosphere

And when the team actually turned up and we actually didn't use kamikaze defensive tactics and dour sideways passing, such as Chelsea in the Cup and the first leg of the City Semi Final, Goodison still roared like it always had. But then when we throw away a comfortable lead against West Ham before going on to lose, it's only natural that people are going to be miffed, and when you feed people stuff like that week in and week out there's only going to be one outcome

It's easy to sit in an arm chair and complain about the atmosphere in the ground, but to be in that atmosphere was soul destroying

When you start to think you'll lose every game your team plays, it just wears you down

 

[Papa Shango]

They spent eight years in the Premier league mate. They felt like a regular fixture that wasn't going anywere and they would if stayed that way had they kept a manager who understood that making your side difficult to beat is more important then making them look good by playing "exciting" football. This small club nonsense is just football snobbery, for eight years they were one of the twenty best football teams in this country.

Its not at all.

In terms of club size, catchment area, finances etc this is about their level.

Its been 4 years for gods sake. They had a nice run seeing as they were a non league club in my lifetime, them going down to that level is more to do with the club itself than anybody else.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Its not at all.

In terms of club size, catchment area, finances etc this is about their level.

Its been 4 years for gods sake. They had a nice run seeing as they were a non league club in my lifetime, them going down to that level is more to do with the club itself than anybody else.

Managers leave lasting effects on a club for years after they've gone, sometimes positive and sometimes negative. Martinez left a negive long term impact on Wigan who are still dealing with the repercussions today. Is it all his fault? Absolutely not, there plenty of blame to go around but he has a massive part of it to his name.

 

[Kenshin]

Exactly, none of us were going to Goodison wanting to have a bad time, but we're only human and when you serve up the horrible product we were getting in those last two seasons then it's only natural that it would lead to a sour atmosphere

And when the team actually turned up and we actually didn't use kamikaze defensive tactics and dour sideways passing, such as Chelsea in the Cup and the first leg of the City Semi Final, Goodison still roared like it always had. But then when we throw away a comfortable lead against West Ham before going on to lose, it's only natural that people are going to be miffed, and when you feed people stuff like that week in and week out there's only going to be one outcome

It's easy to sit in an arm chair and complain about the atmosphere in the ground, but to be in that atmosphere was soul destroying

When you start to think you'll lose every game your team plays, it just wears you down

I agree mate.

But the highlighted bit at the bottom of your post, i pick that out for one reason. the Burnley game recently, we didn't play top class or anything and Burnley more than matched us, but genuinely i thought we were still going to win. After the equaliser i just felt we were going to go up and win it before the end.

Now that is the difference in management at the club now. Take away league placings, take away cups won somewhere else, take away money or how fancy the players are. Just that feeling or belief that we ARE going to win rather than hope we don't lose like last season. That is the biggest difference Koeman has brought to the club.

to do it with Ross, Davies, holgate to name a few in the side as well just ups the feel good factor for when we do win these games.