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Martinez new Belgium head coach

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Gwladysstreetlad said:
Managers leave lasting effects on a club for years after they've gone, sometimes positive and sometimes negative. Martinez left a negive long term impact on Wigan who are still dealing with the repercussions today. Is it all his fault? Absolutely not, there plenty of blame to go around but he has a massive part of it to his name.
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Yeah maybe. He also gave them a moment they will never forget, probably the only thing of major note they will ever do in their history. Swings and roundabouts and all that.

Wigan were always going to end up around this level. Same as the likes of Oldham, Wimbledon, Reading etc. They had a nice run but it was never totally sustainable.
 
I do my best not to hate Martinez, because he seemed like a decent bloke, but he will always be the man who made me not want to watch Everton. I kept going, because you just have to, it's like an addiction or an illness you can't kick, but my word was I miserable by the end of last season. I was just beaten down by the whole thing

And what didn't help was the Cult who glorified him whilst he was doing all this. There's a bit of that slowly starting to happen with Koeman too, which worries me somewhat. I was hoping we'd learnt our lesson but there already seems to be the beginning of a "Koeman Kult" brewing ("Koemanista's" if you will)

I don't think I've ever hated Martinez the man (how could I when I've never met him?) but I might go as far to say that I hated his followers at one point. Had they not been as evangelical, as cult like, I might have a softer opinion of him and what he tried to do here. That's the saddest thing at the end of the day. The hate that people seem to have for Martinez even now rests in those persons hands. Their overzealous worship of him created an equally overzealous reaction on the other side, so really all the hate he gets today is their fault more than it is his

It's sad really, and I kind of just wish that we could draw a line under it all and move on. It just isn't healthy and serves no purpose

The people who hate him will always hate him and the last remnants of the cult are never going to change, so it's just a pointless ongoing debate/argument/war that will go on forever

And yeah I get the irony of saying that whilst also posting in this thread lol lol lol

I think I might give it a wide berth from now on to be honest, no good can come from it
 
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Kenshin said:
I agree mate.

But the highlighted bit at the bottom of your post, i pick that out for one reason. the Burnley game recently, we didn't play top class or anything and Burnley more than matched us, but genuinely i thought we were still going to win. After the equaliser i just felt we were going to go up and win it before the end.

Now that is the difference in management at the club now. Take away league placings, take away cups won somewhere else, take away money or how fancy the players are. Just that feeling or belief that we ARE going to win rather than hope we don't lose like last season. That is the biggest difference Koeman has brought to the club.

to do it with Ross, Davies, holgate to name a few in the side as well just ups the feel good factor for when we do win these games.
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The next step is games like Sunday just gone where I expect us to lose/not turn up regardless.
 
I just don't get why people's heads fall off when discussing the guy.

He had a good season and two disappointing ones. Flirted with CL football, equaled our deepest run in Europe since 1985, and gave us a couple of deep cup runs.

I mean yeah, we under performed in the league for two years, and it was apparent that change needed to happen, but in the big scheme it wasn't all terrible. I don't know why people have to be so over the top.
 
Papa Shango said:
Yeah maybe. He also gave them a moment they will never forget, probably the only thing of major note they will ever do in their history. Swings and roundabouts and all that.

Wigan were always going to end up around this level. Same as the likes of Oldham, Wimbledon, Reading etc. They had a nice run but it was never totally sustainable.
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Well I disagree with you completely about it being sustainable because Stoke amd West Brom have made themselves furniture. Now i know they have bigger fans bases but they wouldn't of lasted more then a couple of seasons without building a solid infrastructure. Wigan had one that was working until Martinez wrecked it by focusing on style over substance. They would of been fine had they brought in a Pulis type over Martinez.

How do you know they will never achieve anything like that again? Anything can happen in this game. Yes it's unlikely and yet Wigan playing in the Premier League for eight years was also unlikely but it still happend and can happem again.

I don't know if you personally know any Wigan fans mate but the ones in acquainted with take a very different view to yours. Yes they loved that day at Wembley and will never forget seeing their side win the cup but they'd give it up tomorrow to be back in the Premier league.
 

ilikecheese said:
I just don't get why people's heads fall off when discussing the guy.

He had a good season and two disappointing ones. Flirted with CL football, equaled our deepest run in Europe since 1985, and gave us a couple of deep cup runs.

I mean yeah, we under performed in the league for two years, and it was apparent that change needed to happen, but in the big scheme it wasn't all terrible. I don't know why people have to be so over the top.
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I agree mate

And it's just the same arguments from both sides over and over

It's now become the equivalent of running up the Bowser staircase in Mario 64 when you don't have enough stars

 
Gwladysstreetlad said:
Well I disagree with you completely about it being sustainable because Stoke amd West Brom have made themselves furniture. Now i know they have bigger fans bases but they wouldn't of lasted more then a couple of seasons without building a solid infrastructure. Wigan had one that was working until Martinez wrecked it by focusing on style over substance. They would of been fine had they brought in a Pulis type over Martinez.

How do you know they will never achieve anything like that again? Anything can happen in this game. Yes it's unlikely and yet Wigan playing in the Premier League for eight years was also unlikely but it still happend and can happem again.

I don't know if you personally know any Wigan fans mate but the ones in acquainted with take a very different view to yours. Yes they loved that day at Wembley and will never forget seeing their side win the cup but they'd give it up tomorrow to be back in the Premier league.
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Stoke and West Brom are proper traditional clubs! They are not comparable at all!

I don't know if they will or wont, its highly unlikely that they will though.

Pulis would maybe have kept them up because as much as people hate to admit it Pulis is a top quality manager who is great at what he does. That doesn't mean anything though, they would still merely be existing.

Of course fans you know will be wanting top flight football, they got used to it.

I don't get what I am saying wrong here to be honest, it has got nothing to do with Martinez what I am saying either. It's just how it is. History is littered with clubs who do stuff like they did throughout the world and 9 times out of ten they end up going back down to their "level". It was going to happen regardless at some point.
 
ilikecheese said:
I just don't get why people's heads fall off when discussing the guy.

He had a good season and two disappointing ones. Flirted with CL football, equaled our deepest run in Europe since 1985, and gave us a couple of deep cup runs.

I mean yeah, we under performed in the league for two years, and it was apparent that change needed to happen, but in the big scheme it wasn't all terrible. I don't know why people have to be so over the top.
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It is a bit odd, I get involved far too much myself.

Funny thing is I dont have any strong feelings for Martinez one way or the other. It just rankles me when people say mad stuff like "HE RUINED OUR CLUB!" etc. He didnt, we are Everton for gods sake, no one manager can do that.
 

ilikecheese said:
I just don't get why people's heads fall off when discussing the guy.

He had a good season and two disappointing ones. Flirted with CL football, equaled our deepest run in Europe since 1985, and gave us a couple of deep cup runs.

I mean yeah, we under performed in the league for two years, and it was apparent that change needed to happen, but in the big scheme it wasn't all terrible. I don't know why people have to be so over the top.
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How else would @davek keep the wummery going if heads didn't fall off ?

This'll thread will still be going on in ten years time lol
 
ilikecheese said:
I just don't get why people's heads fall off when discussing the guy.

He had a good season and two disappointing ones. Flirted with CL football, equaled our deepest run in Europe since 1985, and gave us a couple of deep cup runs.

I mean yeah, we under performed in the league for two years, and it was apparent that change needed to happen, but in the big scheme it wasn't all terrible. I don't know why people have to be so over the top.
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People don't like having the piss taken out of them and being spoken to as though their idiots. Martinez chatted so much wham so regularly that it became a joke. If he'd just been honest once i a while I probably wouldn't hold it so much against him. I dont get the hate some feel about Moyes when discussing his time here (since he left he left ye fair enough). Going the match was painful for the last two years, I gave him the benefit of the doubt in 14-15 but it got worse rather then better. Had he at least tried to adapt and show some flexibility with his methods and philosophy it wouldn't of been so bad but it became more and more apparent as the weeks went by that he cared more about how we played then our results and I'm afraid that is just cometly unacceptable for me.
 

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