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Martinez new Belgium head coach

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Armel said:
Yes but it still provides a lot of "entertainment" for Dutch fans who are now boasting that it's extra sweet because they've beaten the Germans etc... Those games never really take place in a somewhat friendly atmosphere; like recently the spitting U20 player. Belgium winning from the Netherlands, in a friendly, or the reverse wouldn't produce the same effects.

For future tournaments you should be alright, nowhere near as bad as after Euro 2000.
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aye you're right...personally i'm a bit footballed-out but sure if people enjoy the Nations' League then more power to them, just that these games don't mean much in the longer scheme of things.
 
dholliday said:
aye you're right...personally i'm a bit footballed-out but sure if people enjoy the Nations' League then more power to them, just that these games don't mean much in the longer scheme of things.
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Surely it's better for Germany after a disastrous WC to be playing competitive games against good sides rather than qualifiers against San Marino and and Moldova? That would just paper over the cracks.
 
Armel said:
I disagree here mate. For the Dutch; Germany-Holland is still a very big game. Doesn't matter if it's a friendly or not. They still take huge proud in beating the former "enemy". I think it's ridiculous, but okay. It also involves primitives using the derogatory term for Germans; "moffen" (translates in something like Huns).
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Don't think there's really that much animosity between the two anymore, if I'm being honest. Of course there's still a fair few that see Germany as the evil neighbours and will probably continue to do so till they die.

And of course we (the Dutch) take pride in beating Germany, but tbh I'm much more happy about not having lost to Belgium last night, than taking 3 points against Germany. No offense meant whatsoever here, but the Belgium team,media and lot of their fans seem to be doing the exact same thing you accused the Dutch of for many many years. The arrogance surrounding everything to do with the Red Devils is quite unbelievable. Don't think we ever treated you with the same arrogance and disrespect, that you're (well not necessarily you, but a lot of Belgium fans) doing with us.


Always do have a feeling that the Red Devils following is suffering from a huge minority complex with regards to Oranje. I'm by no means a fanatical international fan. Prefer club football so much more myself, but found myself strangely interested in this edition of 'de derby der lage landen':)
 
Dutch Toffee said:
Don't think there's really that much animosity between the two anymore, if I'm being honest. Of course there's still a fair few that see Germany as the evil neighbours and will probably continue to do so till they die.

And of course we (the Dutch) take pride in beating Germany, but tbh I'm much more happy about not having lost to Belgium last night, than taking 3 points against Germany. No offense meant whatsoever here, but the Belgium team,media and lot of their fans seem to be doing the exact same thing you accused the Dutch of for many many years. The arrogance surrounding everything to do with the Red Devils is quite unbelievable. Don't think we ever treated you with the same arrogance and disrespect, that you're (well not necessarily you, but a lot of Belgium fans) doing with us.


Always do have a feeling that the Red Devils following is suffering from a huge minority complex with regards to Oranje. I'm by no means a fanatical international fan. Prefer club football so much more myself, but found myself strangely interested in this edition of 'de derby der lage landen':)
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From what I understand there's still quite a bit of animosity; a very considerable part of my family is from around the Netherlands (mostly from around Amsterdam), so I go there quite a bit. Could be different where you live IDK. Also in the Veronica Inside a few days ago they took great pleasure in beating the Germans. (Crying Germans etc; also quite a bit more animosity on twitter in comparison).

Let's be honest here the game yesterday was nothing. Both teams fielding B-teams. Ridiculous. I can't get excited about that. I'm not alone, even the Dutch Legion couldn't be arsed, only 750 there (and I understand them completely). Same with the 1-1 in Amsterdam a few years back. They're constantly doing similar stuff. Same in the Olympics. Both teams needed a draw; neither team played for it; we had a draw. There's by no means a similar amount of animosity between the Belgians and the Dutch as there is between the Germans and the Dutch. Also in Antwerp, Gent quite a few Dutch people you have there (in Gent vooral een gevolg van het Nederlandse lotingsysteem in het hoger onderwijs) etc; and in Holland there were a lot of Dutch supporters for the Belgian national team during the last two tournaments. I'm just saying it's considerably less than the arch-rival; also we were never as good as the Germans to be considered an elite arch-rival (the Germans are glorious-probably why some people are now gloating because of their temporary blip).

The Belgium team,media and lot of their fans seem to be doing the exact same thing you accused the Dutch of for many many years. Fair point. I don't like it either. I disagree though, you guys (not everyone off course- most people are friendly) did treat us with the same arrogance and disrespect. The bile spewed by Kluivert etc... . By no means an excuse to do it back though; pendulum always swings back and forth so you should behave in a dignified manner when things are going well. I also think it's mostly something of the older generation. For a lot of those journalists it's innocent banter though; not a particular fan btw. Probably made worse because half of the annalists on Flemish television are Dutch. Like Mulder (both of them, also his son), Boskamp, De Mos, there's also De Boer...

I don't think you'd find a lot of people genuinely hating Dutch people. Well except maybe in some places like Voeren, where the French-Speakers are accusing the Flemish speaking people of erasing them for Dutch people. I wouldn't know how you actively go about that, but okay.
 

Armel said:
From what I understand there's still quite a bit of animosity; a very considerable part of my family is from around the Netherlands (mostly from around Amsterdam), so I go there quite a bit. Could be different where you live IDK. Also in the Veronica Inside a few days ago they took great pleasure in beating the Germans. (Crying Germans etc; also quite a bit more animosity on twitter in comparison).

Let's be honest here the game yesterday was nothing. Both teams fielding B-teams. Ridiculous. I can't get excited about that. I'm not alone, even the Dutch Legion couldn't be arsed, only 750 there (and I understand them completely). Same with the 1-1 in Amsterdam a few years back. They're constantly doing similar stuff. Same in the Olympics. Both teams needed a draw; neither team played for it; we had a draw. There's by no means a similar amount of animosity between the Belgians and the Dutch as there is between the Germans and the Dutch. Also in Antwerp, Gent quite a few Dutch people you have there (in Gent vooral een gevolg van het Nederlandse lotingsysteem in het hoger onderwijs) etc; and in Holland there were a lot of Dutch supporters for the Belgian national team during the last two tournaments. I'm just saying it's considerably less than the arch-rival; also we were never as good as the Germans to be considered an elite arch-rival (the Germans are glorious-probably why some people are now gloating because of their temporary blip).

The Belgium team,media and lot of their fans seem to be doing the exact same thing you accused the Dutch of for many many years. Fair point. I don't like it either. I disagree though, you guys (not everyone off course- most people are friendly) did treat us with the same arrogance and disrespect. The bile spewed by Kluivert etc... . By no means an excuse to do it back though; pendulum always swings back and forth so you should behave in a dignified manner when things are going well. I also think it's mostly something of the older generation. For a lot of those journalists it's innocent banter though; not a particular fan btw. Probably made worse because half of the annalists on Flemish television are Dutch. Like Mulder (both of them, also his son), Boskamp, De Mos, there's also De Boer...

I don't think you'd find a lot of people genuinely hating Dutch people. Well except maybe in some places like Voeren, where the French-Speakers are accusing the Flemish speaking people of erasing them for Dutch people. I wouldn't know how you actively go about that, but okay.
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You're probably right in that the animosity against the Germans is bigger in the big cities like Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague, but still, imo it has become a lot less. I even know of people who choose to support the German national team when the Dutch don't make a major tournament.

I like the Belgians a lot as the vast majority are a very friendly bunch. As I live very close to the Belgian border, I often feel I have more in common with your guys than I have with the rest of Holland. I mean a lot of people in Holland even refer to my region as part of Belgium/Germanylol. And I agree, also don't think it's a case of genuine hatred towards eachother.

Those Mulder pundits (especially the grumpy old one) you talk about, surely must be the worst pundits ever in the history of Belgian and Dutch football. Loving Bosman though.
 
Tbh I quite liked the Dutch squads in the 90s. You had some immense players back then. Also, Marco van Basten is Dutch and is one of my all-time favourites. And your cheese is lovely.

Your current manager is a tit though. It's kind of funny that he managed us while Liverpool had a German. I wonder if he and van Gaal still hate each other.
 
BigMick said:
@Armel and @Dutch Toffee - good to have some intelligent, informed and fair-minded comments on this thread - makes a change. :)
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Why wouldn't we? Guess Belgium and The Netherlands are a little bit like the city of Liverpool. In the end, when all is said and done and the dust settles and never mind the odd rivalry, we are neighbours that will have eachother's back in difficult times.
 


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