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Martinez new Belgium head coach

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davek said:
And THAT ^^^ is why the thread gains so much traction: bitter and irrational outbursts concerning a manager who quite obviously is not "a uselss manager". And THA, in turn, is also the weakness of those who attack him: it lacks nuance and analysis and anything like an ability to accept pros and cons. It's why it's relatively easy for me to bat most of it away as caricature and cluelessness.
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Coming from you I will take all that as a compliment. :)

While you are hovering up there on your higher plane, how about contemplating the fact that the two main clubs he managed he took them both backwards. If he started here in the last year we would have gone the way of Wigan. It is not a good sign of a manager if you only get the new bounce and it starts going south thereafter. He had two clubs that were coached to have strong defences that made his time look better than it would have been.

The only decent thing he did was a back to the walls, shock fa cup win. Bobby Gould did that but we don't see anyone waxing lyrical about him.

So in summary your honour:

Swansea: Best things happened after he left
Wigan: Relegated, also managed teams to lose 9-1 and 8-0.
Everton: Took the 5th best team in the country to consecutive finishes of 11th
Belgium: Took the 2nd best team in the world to 3rd place and screwed up what should have been an easy walk to a Nations League trophy.

Medals:

1 league one championship
1 FA cup win

You know what, now it is all on paper I can see why you think he is so brilliant. A trophy cabinet to rival Mourinho. Phenomenal success over 12 years. A tactical genius who has learnt from his mistakes... :oops:
 
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davek said:
And THAT ^^^ is why the thread gains so much traction: bitter and irrational outbursts concerning a manager who quite obviously is not "a uselss manager". And THA, in turn, is also the weakness of those who attack him: it lacks nuance and analysis and anything like an ability to accept pros and cons. It's why it's relatively easy for me to bat most of it away as caricature and cluelessness.
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Bit ironic that, coming from the human embodiment of lack of nuance, analysis and anything like an ability to accept pros and cons.
 

DualityNSNO said:
Bit ironic that, coming from the human embodiment of lack of nuance, analysis and anything like an ability to accept pros and cons.
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I have written a little rap verse around that.

@davek 's iconic, in being ironic
Oasis sang a song, Supersonic
Some people plague me...like the bubonic
And Bobby made me hit the booze...something chronic.



Ok lads, it's 10.22am here in NZ and I've been up all night ...I'm going to get my head down now
.
 
The binman chronicles said:
Coming from you I will take all that as a compliment. :)

While you are hovering up there on your higher plane, how about contemplating the fact that the two main clubs he managed he took them both backwards. If he started here in the last year we would have gone the way of Wigan. It is not a good sign of a manager if you only get the new bounce and it starts going south thereafter. He had two clubs that were coached to have strong defences that made his time look better than it would have been.

The only decent thing he did was a back to the walls, shock fa cup win. Bobby Gould did that but we don't see anyone waxing lyrical about him.

So in summary your honour:

Swansea: Best things happened after he left
Wigan: Relegated, also managed teams to lose 9-1 and 8-0.
Everton: Took the 5th best team in the country to consecutive finishes of 11th
Belgium: Took the 2nd best team in the world to 3rd place and screwed up what should have been an easy walk to a Nations League trophy.

Medals:

1 league one championship
1 FA cup win

You know what, now it is all on paper I can see why you think he is so brilliant. A trophy cabinet to rival Mourinho. Phenomenal success over 12 years. A tactical genius who has learnt from his mistakes... :oops:
Click to expand...
See, you underline again and again my point about lack of nuance and not being able to present a balance.

That's because you have an irrational hatred of the man.
 
DualityNSNO said:
Bit ironic that, coming from the human embodiment of lack of nuance, analysis and anything like an ability to accept pros and cons.
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I just listed the pros and cons of Martinez's time here.

You cant do that and I'm the one who's at fault. Incredible.
 
davek said:
The system was sound: look at Belgium's record breaking number of wins and record number of goals scored/not conceded. The human material was not up to the required standard to evolve to something better at Everton.

Now that was also a fault of Roberto's in trusting those limited players to evolve and get better, although a hefty chunk of blame goes also to the club and its meagre squad investment. If Martinez had Koeman's warchest he'd have faired a lot better in seasons 2 and 3, that's for sure, because the players would have been superior and open to instruction and carrying out that instruction.
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Ok I’ll give you that.

However I reckon Silva is a better manager than Martinez.

He didn’t help by buying players like McGeady though.
 

davek said:
See, you underline again and again my point about lack of nuance and not being able to present a balance.

That's because you have an irrational hatred of the man.
Click to expand...

I don't hate him. I just don't think he is a top level manager. He is good at setting his teams going forward and probably has a talent for boosting the confidence of a player who is feeling low. However when teams work out that attacking style, you end up with bad defeats that shouldn't happen and that effects the players and everything goes on a downward spiral from there.

He could have have proved that he has learnt from the past with that Swiss game, but he did the exact same thing.

1 Trophy puts him in the category with Harry Redknapp, Alex McLeish (If you don't count Scottish wins), Steve McClaren, Michael Laudrup etc.

That is the level he is on. You worship a false idol.
 
Black Belt Jones said:
Only fair to weigh this up against the collective worst Everton signing since 1878 - Roberto importing the spine of Wigan Athletic (Robles, Alacaraz, McCarthy, and Kone) to Everton Football Club. You won't have been there to see it, but it was like someone had staged a Greek tragedy at Goodison Park. Grown men weeping bitter tears in the stands at the absolute state of these imposters in the Royal Blue Jersey.
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*shudders* Just recalled McGeady
 
Groucho said:
Ok I’ll give you that.

However I reckon Silva is a better manager than Martinez.

He didn’t help by buying players like McGeady though.
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Well, I hope so, because that'll mean he extends our season end points total to an amount that makes a CL place very possible/probable.

I like what I see so far, but he's done nothing yet. His reputation in Portugal and Greece was a coach who emphasised defence more than attack. So they're different, him and Martinez. We all hope he can get ther balance right, and Brands doing his job and getting this feller an attacker worthy of the name will go a long way to providing it.
 

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