Martinez: The Reality

[Carlito]

He's been decent in the transfer market though

The only poor player he has signed for a decent fee is Kone and his injury has ruined any chance of judging him properly

His record remains a worry for me.

The style of football relies on quick, incisive passing, and yet none of his signings fit that mould.

If anything, Kone looks the most comfortable on the ball.

 

[Khalekan]

The pro's for Martinez is he has done 2 things for Wigan that Moyes never did for Everton;

1) Beat the 'top four' on their own ground.
2) win a trophey.

In his 1st season in charge of Everton he's already completed 1, and if by the end of this season he completes 2 and wins us the Europa League he'll be hailed as one of Evertons greatest ever managers.

I'm prepared to give him untill this time next season, if we find ourselves in the same position or worse we should get rid.
However, we could be on the verge of one of our greatest ever seasons, I hope it happens (can't see it like but who knows)

Wise words.

If GOT had been around in that dismal autumn/winter of 1983/84 the same debate woukd have been raging about Howard Kendall.

Little did we know what was coming down the pike

 

[deipnosophist]

Another 'Brokeback moment' for my collection

lol lol

 

[nsno-chris]

Try telling that to the legion of fickle faint-hearts who wanted Tony Pulis in back in December.

Name one and quote it.

Oh wait, another lie

 

[Khalekan]

His record remains a worry for me.

The style of football relies on quick, incisive passing, and yet none of his signings fit that mould.

If anything, Kone looks the most comfortable on the ball.

Speaking of Kone, I was baffled that Mirallas was fetched on for the last ten minutes on Sunday, instead of Kone.

Especially when Lennon and Atsu were already on the pitch.

 

[Toffeelover]

The pro's for Martinez is he has done 2 things for Wigan that Moyes never did for Everton;

1) Beat the 'top four' on their own ground.
2) win a trophey.

In his 1st season in charge of Everton he's already completed 1, and if by the end of this season he completes 2 and wins us the Europa League he'll be hailed as one of Evertons greatest ever managers.

I'm prepared to give him untill this time next season, if we find ourselves in the same position or worse we should get rid.
However, we could be on the verge of one of our greatest ever seasons, I hope it happens (can't see it like but who knows)

Forget to mention:-

3) His team was relegated.

Our EX never managed that one either.

 

[Dexter]

This isn't trying to be funny or cause any trouble, but I was wondering if any of you lads calling for Martinez to go were lads who backed and defended Moyes when he was getting loads of stick.

I couldn't stand moyes, I'd rather us stick with Nobby Bobby than have him back but I honestly believe we attacked better and players had more of an understanding when attacking under moyes than Bobby and that is something I would of never thought, we have had too many games this season were we haven't had a single shot on goal and have been utterly boring, I wouldn't let either of these managers anywhere near my nephews Sunday league team

 

[deipnosophist]

Concerning reality.....what is actually going on at a football club, with the manager,players and owners is something that supporters can only ever speculate about, because the only fact that supporters have is results. Even quality of performance is a matter of opinion. My view? I think that Martinez thinking for the whole season was changed the moment Chelsea put six goals past us at GP. On the same day, we scored three against probably the best defence in the League at the time(thats an opinion, of course). Conceding six at home was just not acceptable in any circumstances,certainly not at Everton were expectation was as high it was. Martinez then immediately had a problem. He had to keep going with his 'philosophy'...the attacking football which had been so successful in his first season, but at the same time he had to try to lay the ghost of Chelseas six goals and ensure that we were more 'careful' at the back. This is the problem he has wrestled with all season, and it has proved difficult to solve for a number of reasons. The Stones injury didn't help, and loss of form post World Cup in Jagielkas case was a factor. It would have helped in Barkleys progress had been as expected, this would have given us attacking opportunities from midfield as well as via Lukaku. He needed some steel in front of the back four, but this made us less of an attacking threat, and we found it difficult to break down teams who packed the final third with defenders...it was only Barry of the midfield 'wall' who could thread a positive pass (Gibson even more than Barry, but if Gibson did not have fitness issues, he would probably still be at United). I think Martinez would like to play with two out and out wingers, but because ,again, of the goals we conceded against Chelsea, and subsquently other teams, he needed a worker like Naismith, not technically the most gifted, but a player he could rely on to track back and always help in defence, as well as contribute in attack. Naismith brought so much to the team, despite his limitations in skill compared with others, that he just had to play. Naismith was going to be all over the pitch, even though he was selected 'on the wing'...when really an out and out winger on both flanks would have helped in an attacking sense. But the spectre of the 6-3 has persisted..and Martinez still needs the insurance of Naismith at the expense of a winger(whatever way the line up is published, its still the same players for the same job). The summer will be fascinating...and depends on whether Martinez can lay the ghost of the Chelsea 6 goals, in his own head, and be brave enough to set out next season with two wingers. To some extent football hasn't changed much since the days of Tommy Ring(see Roy Vernon thread!)...the best way to beat a massed defence is to get behind it, to the by line and cross or pull back to a striker or oncoming attacking midfielder. Martinez has the ability to be a very good manager, he needs to get the right players in the summer, if he does that we will be successful.

Excellent post Steve. The Chelsea 'debacle' recalls Tim Howard in terrible saving form (near every shot from them went in). Why does Martinez persist with him? Bad management imo

 

[Khalekan]

I couldn't stand moyes, I'd rather us stick with Nobby Bobby than have him back but I honestly believe we attacked better and players had more of an understanding when attacking under moyes than Bobby and that is something I would of never thought, we have had too many games this season were we haven't had a single shot on goal and have been utterly boring, I wouldn't let either of these managers anywhere near my nephews Sunday league team

Another thing zi hate is that when someone gets in behind the full backs there are so few targets to aim at.

Invariably it is Rom and sometimes one other player.

And they are always totally outnumbered and surrounded.

We need more people to be running into the box when we attack.

 

[deipnosophist]

Footballs a simple game with players like we have being made very complicated by the manager we have.

Nothing to do with agenda's, liking or not liking the manager....I hope for the good of our club he goes in the summer.

He's like the meeting of a very fit bird who is everything you've ever wanted until they get their feet under the table and turn into someone you'd happily do with out.

...so, you've met my first wife? lol

 

[Ihaters]

The pro's for Martinez is he has done 2 things for Wigan that Moyes never did for Everton;

1) Beat the 'top four' on their own ground.
2) win a trophey.

In his 1st season in charge of Everton he's already completed 1,

That's not actually true

Martinez hasn't beaten Liverpool or City on their grounds so to say he's beaten the top 4 isn't correct.
If you mean he has beaten A top 4 team but Moyes hasn't...
Moyes beat Man City at the Etihad so its still not correct.

But aside from that, I agree, winning a trophy would be ace

 

[steken1]

If players are not putting in the effort you have to ask why they are allowed to get away with it?

I'm not sure with our injury list this season, we've been able to do loads about it. I'm not absolving him of blame. He's made errors, serious ones when you consider how many goals Howards cost us this season, BUT, it's been a tough season for injuries too.

He can make a start putting it right by playing Gibson and Robles next game. That would restore a bit of faith from me. I wouldn't be dead against Kone getting a bit of time on the pitch too.

 

[JustOpp]

I'm not in the Martinez out camp (yet), but one thing I've noticed this week is that all the pundits who loved him until this point are now rendered speechless when asked whether he should remain in charge. I'd heard a lot of, "he needs to do this" or "he needs to do that" this season, but now the same people are doubting whether he can get this thing turned around.

(Disclaimer: over a decade in that industry has taught me that no one really knows anything, so take the above for what it's worth.)

 

[Stanley Parker]

His record remains a worry for me.

The style of football relies on quick, incisive passing, and yet none of his signings fit that mould.

If anything, Kone looks the most comfortable on the ball.

He brought Robles, Alcaraz, McCarthy and Kone with him from Wigan. He obviously knew what they could do and they knew what was expected of them.

I would have been happy to see McArthur here too. He had a good partnership with McCarthy and would have been a good deputy for Barry - and a possible successor too. He's now gone to Crystal Palace.

 

[deipnosophist]

Wrong. No one is arsed about it really.

It's last year's record number of PL points and the style of football we were playing. People want that back.

He's not disappearing anytime soon. And you know it.

I am