Martinez: The Reality

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The Top 4 teams last year were Man City, who beat us in manchester, Chelsea, who beat us at stamford bridge, liverpool, who beat us at anfield and arsenal, who we drew with at the emirates in the league and then they beat us there in the cup.

This year the top 4 are arsenal, who we haven't played away from home yet, man u, who beat us at theirs, man city, who beat us at theirs and chelsea, who beat us at theirs.

So that's 8 games, 1 draw, 7 losses by my reckoning.

@markDee is talking bollocks.
 
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I care a lot about the europa but I don't honestly think we'll win it so my opinion on martinez should we get knocked out in this round or the next will not change.

I kind of always took us losing in europe eventually as a given.
 

Allezfan said:
The Top 4 teams last year were Man City, who beat us in manchester, Chelsea, who beat us at stamford bridge, liverpool, who beat us at anfield and arsenal, who we drew with at the emirates in the league and then they beat us there in the cup.

This year the top 4 are arsenal, who we haven't played away from home yet, man u, who beat us at theirs, man city, who beat us at theirs and chelsea, who beat us at theirs.

So that's 8 games, 1 draw, 7 losses by my reckoning.

@markDee is talking bollocks.
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Yeah but I thought I would be gentler in my approach to saying it lol
 
LouReedwalkonthewildside said:
This isn't trying to be funny or cause any trouble, but I was wondering if any of you lads calling for Martinez to go were lads who backed and defended Moyes when he was getting loads of stick.
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I thought Moyes did a great job, in fact I'd go so far as to say 6th is better than bottom half, but I wouldn't want him back here and I wouldn't want Martinez sacked without some time to improve us either.
Anyone who wants Bobby sacked for one poor second season, is forgetting Moyes second season and where we went next.

Give it a chance you daft planks.
 
Ihaters said:
I thought Moyes did a great job, in fact I'd go so far as to say 6th is better than bottom half, but I wouldn't want him back here and I wouldn't want Martinez sacked without some time to improve us either.
Anyone who wants Bobby sacked for one poor second season, is forgetting Moyes second season and where we went next.

Give it a chance you daft planks.
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Moyes (Rooney apart) didn't have the talent at his disposal that Martinez does now. Ok we realise we overachieved last season, but Martinez must shoulder the blame this season for not only some appalling football, but also the failure to get the best out of players. At no point this season (bar Europe) have we been 'entertained' and there has been no suggestion that our football and form is set to improve. If we avoid relegation and the football doesn't improve I can't see him managing us next year.
 
rochdaleblue said:
Moyes (Rooney apart) didn't have the talent at his disposal that Martinez does now. Ok we realise we overachieved last season, but Martinez must shoulder the blame this season for not only some appalling football, but also the failure to get the best out of players. At no point this season (bar Europe) have we been 'entertained' and there has been no suggestion that our football and form is set to improve. If we avoid relegation and the football doesn't improve I can't see him managing us next year.
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Rooney apart is one hell of an apart.

Apart from one of the best strikers in the world up front alongside club legend ferguson and nigel martyn in goal and gravesen in midfield we had no talent in that team at all.
 

Allezfan said:
Rooney apart is one hell of an apart.

Apart from one of the best strikers in the world up front alongside club legend ferguson and nigel martyn in goal and gravesen in midfield we had no talent in that team at all.
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I take your point about Martyn (oh how I wish he was in goal for us now) the club legend was past his best at this point in his career and gravesen was infuriating to watch most of the time. Moyes didn't have the likes of stones, baines, Coleman, McCarthy, miralles and lukaku to call upon. But that is not saying I want moyes back far from it. I just want a manager to get the best out of the players I have mentioned. Martinez has till the end of the season to be judged if he is to be that man. I hope he does, but at present there are no signs to suggest he will.
 
Steve Wigan said:
Concerning reality.....what is actually going on at a football club, with the manager,players and owners is something that supporters can only ever speculate about, because the only fact that supporters have is results. Even quality of performance is a matter of opinion. My view? I think that Martinez thinking for the whole season was changed the moment Chelsea put six goals past us at GP. On the same day, we scored three against probably the best defence in the League at the time(thats an opinion, of course). Conceding six at home was just not acceptable in any circumstances,certainly not at Everton were expectation was as high it was. Martinez then immediately had a problem. He had to keep going with his 'philosophy'...the attacking football which had been so successful in his first season, but at the same time he had to try to lay the ghost of Chelseas six goals and ensure that we were more 'careful' at the back. This is the problem he has wrestled with all season, and it has proved difficult to solve for a number of reasons. The Stones injury didn't help, and loss of form post World Cup in Jagielkas case was a factor. It would have helped in Barkleys progress had been as expected, this would have given us attacking opportunities from midfield as well as via Lukaku. He needed some steel in front of the back four, but this made us less of an attacking threat, and we found it difficult to break down teams who packed the final third with defenders...it was only Barry of the midfield 'wall' who could thread a positive pass (Gibson even more than Barry, but if Gibson did not have fitness issues, he would probably still be at United). I think Martinez would like to play with two out and out wingers, but because ,again, of the goals we conceded against Chelsea, and subsquently other teams, he needed a worker like Naismith, not technically the most gifted, but a player he could rely on to track back and always help in defence, as well as contribute in attack. Naismith brought so much to the team, despite his limitations in skill compared with others, that he just had to play. Naismith was going to be all over the pitch, even though he was selected 'on the wing'...when really an out and out winger on both flanks would have helped in an attacking sense. But the spectre of the 6-3 has persisted..and Martinez still needs the insurance of Naismith at the expense of a winger(whatever way the line up is published, its still the same players for the same job). The summer will be fascinating...and depends on whether Martinez can lay the ghost of the Chelsea 6 goals, in his own head, and be brave enough to set out next season with two wingers. To some extent football hasn't changed much since the days of Tommy Ring(see Roy Vernon thread!)...the best way to beat a massed defence is to get behind it, to the by line and cross or pull back to a striker or oncoming attacking midfielder. Martinez has the ability to be a very good manager, he needs to get the right players in the summer, if he does that we will be successful.
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Agree with a lot of that, but I posted earlier about banking on and waiting on Lukaku to sign and then being hamstrung in terms of options. Problems showdd v Arsenal, actually coasting yet we completely ran out of steam at 70 mins.

Think ge gambled pretty big and after the 2nd Arsenal goal it was obvious the gamble hadn't paid off, still hasn't, never will, he actually bet the club's top flight status by the looks of it, going by results.
 
We are basically just bottlers I reckon with or without Martinez..we bottled our lead over arsenal against palace last April, we've lost 17 to 19 points this season from winning positions which is a major fume of mine. The ginger before RM oversaw us bottle many a big occasion. Let's stop being bottlers staff and players I mean. Oh and @GrandOldTeam yeh next December maximum then get rid of bottler !
 
magicjuan said:
Agree with a lot of that, but I posted earlier about banking on and waiting on Lukaku to sign and then being hamstrung in terms of options. Problems showdd v Arsenal, actually coasting yet we completely ran out of steam at 70 mins.

Think ge gambled pretty big and after the 2nd Arsenal goal it was obvious the gamble hadn't paid off, still hasn't, never will, he actually bet the club's top flight status by the looks of it, going by results.
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No one was against the purchase of lukaku in the summer. But many would agree with you, firstly the timing-it was too late and secondly we paid over the odds. Many teams pay over the odds sometimes for players, if they desperately want them. The difference with us is that we put all the eggs in one basket with the purchase of lukaku, which left us with no money to strengthen other areas of the team. Hindsight is a great thing, but for the fee we purchased lukaku for, we could have got bony an tadic.
 

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