Martinez: The Reality

[TheHumbleEgg]

I've updated this from one posted after the City game in January. Defensive third passing figures are a pretty good indicator of a team 'overplaying' the ball.

These figures suggest that when we have 'upped' the 'super-duper-tika-twatty' passing game, as you describe it, then we've benefitted from it.


Passes in defensive third - 2014/15:

Win
Draw
Loss


v Leicester (A) 124
v Arsenal (H) 106
v Chelsea (H) 96
v WBA (A) 132
v Palace (H) 100
v Liverpool (A) 70
v United (A) 94
v Villa (H) 158
v Burnley (A) 164
v Swansea (H) 80
v Sunderland (A) 65
v West Ham (H) 78
v Spurs (A) 120
v Hull (H) 121
v City (A) 88
v QPR (H) 100
v Southampton (A) 45
v Stoke (H) 99
v Newcastle (A) 60
v Hull (A) 66
v City (H) 52
v WBA (H) 68
v Palace (A) 75
v Liverpool (H) 114
v Chelsea (A) 90
v Leicester (H) 102
v Arsenal (A) 93
v Stoke (A) 67


Average defensive third passes in games won = 117
Average defensive third passes in games drawn= 90
Average defensive third passes in games lost = 85

Blimey. So may pretty colours too. I wasn't actually being snotty by asking BTW, it was a genuine question...guess that cancel that out then.

 

[Brennan]

do you have the stats on Moyes net spend (I don't want him back)

Compared to Martinez please

Moyes's first four season net spend: £14.7m

And that was between 2002 and 2006, prices went up between that time period and the one where Martinez was managing Wigan. That's also not taking into account the difference between our wage bill and Wigan's.

Martinez should be congratulated for keeping Wigan up for so long, not criticised for taking them down.

 

[davek]

Blimey. So may pretty colours too. I wasn't actually being snotty by asking BTW, it was a genuine question...guess that cancel that out then.

I didn't take it that way; I merely answered your question as best I could

 

[ianefc]

Moyes's first four season net spend: £14.7m

And that was between 2002 and 2006, prices went up between that time period and the one where Martinez was managing Wigan. That's also not taking into account the difference between our wage bill and Wigan's.

Martinez should be congratulated for keeping Wigan up for so long, not criticised for taking them down.

The reason for Martinez net spend at Wigan was the massive profit made on Valencia and Palcios (Bruce signings) he wasn't given the money to reinvest but that is why the stats you provided look the way they did, I'd of thought wigans general day to day running was similar to what it was (if not more) under bruce and jewell who didn't take them down. That's like saying the chelseas manager is working with no money because of the profit hes made off of Lukaku, Luiz and Schurlle

 

[Brennan]

The reason for Martinez net spend at Wigan was the massive profit made on Valencia and Palcios (Bruce signings) he wasn't given the money to reinvest but that is why the stats you provided look the way they did, I'd of thought wigans general day to day running was similar to what it was (if not more) under bruce and jewell who didn't take them down. That's like saying the chelseas manager is working with no money because of the profit hes made off of Lukaku, Luiz and Schurlle

Stupid logic.

We got £24m for Rooney. You can't discount players if they go for big fees, otherwise Moyes would have had a net spend of about £35m in that four year period.

Having said that:

Wigan's spend on players, before sales, in the years after being promoted but before Martinez - £56.1m

Wigan's spend on players, before sales, in the years while Martinez was at the club - £34m

There was a marked reduction in spending, you can try and spin it all you like, facts are facts i'm afraid.

 

[maccavennie]

Come.on Boberto, work your usual EL magic tonight!

 

[nsno-chris]

I've updated this from one posted after the City game in January. Defensive third passing figures are a pretty good indicator of a team 'overplaying' the ball.

These figures suggest that when we have 'upped' the 'super-duper-tika-twatty' passing game, as you describe it, then we've benefitted from it.


Passes in defensive third - 2014/15:

Win
Draw
Loss


v Leicester (A) 124
v Arsenal (H) 106
v Chelsea (H) 96
v WBA (A) 132
v Palace (H) 100
v Liverpool (A) 70
v United (A) 94
v Villa (H) 158
v Burnley (A) 164
v Swansea (H) 80
v Sunderland (A) 65
v West Ham (H) 78
v Spurs (A) 120
v Hull (H) 121
v City (A) 88
v QPR (H) 100
v Southampton (A) 45
v Stoke (H) 99
v Newcastle (A) 60
v Hull (A) 66
v City (H) 52
v WBA (H) 68
v Palace (A) 75
v Liverpool (H) 114
v Chelsea (A) 90
v Leicester (H) 102
v Arsenal (A) 93
v Stoke (A) 67


Average defensive third passes in games won = 117
Average defensive third passes in games drawn= 90
Average defensive third passes in games lost = 85

Dave you do realise them stats are totally pointless.

Your sample size for wins is 50% less than those of losses, so it's not a fair comparison i.e.you have 6 wins vs 12 losses. You have one win where passes are through the roof and pushes your averages up

Need to read that stats book me old mucker, take you still haven't.

Nice colours though, so you get a f+ instead of a f-

 

[ianefc]

Stupid logic.

We got £24m for Rooney. You can't discount players if they go for big fees, otherwise Moyes would have had a net spend of about £35m in that four year period.

Yep we did get 24 million for rooney and finished 4th

Also we are quick to point out how much the nonce across the park has spent, 120 million last summer seems to have been mentioned a lot, but when you consider what they got for the racist, it doenst seem to bad considering how theyre playing now.

It is not stupid logic im saying his stats at wigan were massively distorted by 2 sales in his 4 years their, if them 2 players were so influential then fair enough, but I don't see it, didn't Valencia go for 20m? so that means he was +10 straight away (with the obvious exception of losing Valencia)

Its a nonsense which means little as the reality is in the transfer market Martinez has been horrible in the main, whether it be by fees agreed or contracts offered, but not as horrible as the season he has put evertonians through in the past 8 months

 

[Brennan]

Yep we did get 24 million for rooney and finished 4th

Also we are quick to point out how much the nonce across the park has spent, 120 million last summer seems to have been mentioned a lot, but when you consider what they got for the racist, it doenst seem to bad considering how theyre playing now.

It is not stupid logic im saying his stats at wigan were massively distorted by 2 sales in his 4 years their, if them 2 players were so influential then fair enough, but I don't see it, didn't Valencia go for 20m? so that means he was +10 straight away (with the obvious exception of losing Valencia)

Its a nonsense which means little as the reality is in the transfer market Martinez has been horrible in the main, whether it be by fees agreed of contracts offered, but not as horrible as the season he has put evertonians through in the past 8 months

Again:

Wigan's spend on players, before sales, in the years after being promoted but before Martinez - £56.1m

Wigan's spend on players, before sales, in the years while Martinez was at the club - £34m

There was a marked reduction in spending, you can try and spin it all you like, facts are facts i'm afraid.

 

[davek]

Dave you do realise them stats are totally pointless.

Your sample size for wins is 50% less than those of losses, so it's not a fair comparison i.e.you have 6 wins vs 12 losses. You have one win where passes are through the roof and pushes your averages up

Need to read that stats book me old mucker, take you still haven't.

Nice colours though, so you get a f+ instead of a f-

Ok, if you take the 6 highest defensive third passing games we were defeated in it works out at 99 average defensive third passes....still way off the number we make on average when we won.


The stats are counterintuitive to what is generally held as being true: the 'tika-twatter-passy-game' isn't actually the problem.

 

[ianefc]

Again:

Wigan's spend on players, before sales, in the years after being promoted but before Martinez - £56.1m

Wigan's spend on players, before sales, in the years while Martinez was at the club - £34m

There was a marked reduction in spending, you can try and spin it all you like, facts are facts i'm afraid.

as it is a fact where we are situated in the league despite our biggest net spend in our history

And Net spend seem real important to you so you have to be honest enough to look at it both ways

 

[Brennan]

as it is a fact where we are situated in the league despite our biggest net spend in our history

And Net spend seem real important to you so you have to be honest enough to look at it both ways

I've just posted figures that aren't net spend which show Martinez had £22m less to spend on players than the managers who were at Wigan before him.

So he had less money to spend EXCLUDING SALES, and he also lost some of his best players.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Ok, if you take the 6 highest defensive third passing games we were defeated in it works out at 99 average defensive third passes....still way off the number we make on average when we won.


The stats are counterintuitive to what is generally held as being true: the 'tika-twatter-passy-game' isn't actually the problem.

....so it's almost DEFINITELY the manager then? Is it? Is it Dave? Say it is?

*be calm, I'm joking*

 

[TEB335]

Ok, if you take the 6 highest defensive third passing games we were defeated in it works out at 99 average defensive third passes....still way off the number we make on average when we won.


The stats are counterintuitive to what is generally held as being true: the 'tika-twatter-passy-game' isn't actually the problem.

might be interesting to add the EL games into the analysis

 

[ianefc]

I've just posted figures that aren't net spend which show Martinez had £22m less to spend on players than the managers who were at Wigan before him.

So he had less money to spend EXCLUDING SALES, and he also lost some of his best players.

You are doing it to support Martinez, so you are saying that is the reason he did so well to keep them up for as long as he did, what are you excuses for him at Everton with this last summers net spend?