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2020/21 Michael Keane

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Death said:
Yes forget about the game in hand. Just 5 points off champions league i General after playing this many At this stage of the season. Turns out we where 9 points off it under the first martinez season.
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He's done well in the main this season, but I think last night was proof for those that needed it that he hasn't actually improved, he's just suited the set up better. He's still just as limited as he always has been, but when we're playing at the edge of our own box with the midfield sitting right in front you don't notice it as much.
 
Lanolin said:
He's done well in the main this season, but I think last night was proof for those that needed it that he hasn't actually improved, he's just suited the set up better. He's still just as limited as he always has been, but when we're playing at the edge of our own box with the midfield sitting right in front you don't notice it as much.
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It was a weird decision from Carlo as it left Keane isolated against Zaha but tbf from an attacking perspective worked to push Coleman and Digne up the pitch.

The best form of defence - and offence - in the last 15/20 would have been to switch to a back four, though. If that meant Holgate going into midfield, so be it. It would have added legs around James which could have kept him on for 5-10 more minutes and we'd had had someone to hang onto the ball for us, while it would also have allowed us to sit more comfortably in a deep line and I don't think their goal happens in that case, even taking into account the mistakes from Godfrey.
 
BlueToff said:
It was a weird decision from Carlo as it left Keane isolated against Zaha but tbf from an attacking perspective worked to push Coleman and Digne up the pitch.

The best form of defence - and offence - in the last 15/20 would have been to switch to a back four, though. If that meant Holgate going into midfield, so be it. It would have added legs around James which could have kept him on for 5-10 more minutes and we'd had had someone to hang onto the ball for us, while it would also have allowed us to sit more comfortably in a deep line and I don't think their goal happens in that case, even taking into account the mistakes from Godfrey.
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Yep, totally agree with all that. The first bit is something i've been saying for ages when people say you can't play certain ways with Keane in the side - you can, he just won't look as good as an individual. You just have to decide whether the pay off is worth it, and to me, it is.

When I saw the sub my initial thought was that Godfrey would go left back, Holgate right, and Digne would be pushed up into midfield. The change that we made was absolutely horrible, and I just don't think you can be surprised by it working out like that. It was an awful change in theory and even worse in practice.
 
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Lanolin said:
Yep, totally agree with all that. The first bit is something i've been saying for ages when people say you can't play certain ways with Keane in the side - you can, he just won't look as good as an individual. Yu just have to decide whether the pay off is worth it, and to me, it is.

When I saw the sub my initial thought was that Godfrey would go left back, Holgate right, and Digne would be pushed up into midfield. The change that we made was absolutely horrible, and I just don't think you can be surprised by it. It was an awful change in theory and even worse in practice.
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100%

For me Coleman should have stayed on and all we needed was a change in shape but if Godfrey was to come on then just go to that flat four.
 
Bad game yesterday. As posters have mentioned, his improvements this season have been noticeable, but it's difficult to disaggregate those improvements from the system, which I think hides his weaknesses. Those weaknesses were variously exposed yesterday:

I) Free headers under no pressure - aimlessly pumps it into midfield where 50/50 chance it lands at the feet of the opposition. Other CBs bring it down or find a team mate to recycle.
II) Panicky with the ball at his feet. Case in point where he slipped under no pressure and then booted it at Davies from 2 yards away. Davies miscontrols and suddenly the opposition are at us again.
III) Zero pace and turns like a tanker. Always exposed when there are runners, which exacerbates his...
IV) ...lack of positional intelligence. At fault for the goal for charging out to win the ball, and left Yerry exposed once or twice during the game under similar circumstances.
 

Lanolin said:
He's done well in the main this season, but I think last night was proof for those that needed it that he hasn't actually improved, he's just suited the set up better. He's still just as limited as he always has been, but when we're playing at the edge of our own box with the midfield sitting right in front you don't notice it as much.
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100%.

He’s leaden-footed. With that big chunky frame of his he’s never going to become more mobile.

He ‘can’ develop better positional sense, but he’s never shown it. That yesterday - ball watching by moving (slowly) a few steps up, leaving a striker wide open to receive an easy pass, which he then scored from - was amateur level football.

The worst education for a defensive player is being in a Sean Dyche team, because being in such an ultra defensive team of two banks of four, sat deep, any weaknesses will never be exposed (thus addressed). You develop nothing as a defender there other than get plenty of practice heading balls away from opponents you have managed to frustrate. When you then move to a side that plays higher up (which is everybody else), you need to be able to know where to position yourself in regards to not letting a forward get open to receive a pass, and (ideally) you also need pace to track runners that can get in behind your higher line.
 
Been our most consistent defender this season, wasn’t his best game and poor decision for the goal. Done far more good than bad this season though, wouldn’t be too harsh.
 
artetas_biggest_fan said:
100%.

He’s leaden-footed. With that big chunky frame of his he’s never going to become more mobile.

He ‘can’ develop better positional sense, but he’s never shown it. That yesterday - ball watching by moving (slowly) a few steps up, leaving a striker wide open to receive an easy pass, which he then scored from - was amateur level football.

The worst education for a defensive player is being in a Sean Dyche team, because being in such an ultra defensive team of two banks of four, sat deep, any weaknesses will never be exposed (thus addressed). You develop nothing as a defender there other than get plenty of practice heading balls away from opponents you have managed to frustrate. When you then move to a side that plays higher up (which is everybody else), you need to be able to know where to position yourself in regards to not letting a forward get open to receive a pass, and (ideally) you also need pace to track runners that can get in behind your higher line.
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Playing Keane and Mina in a back three can't be done. Neither of them have the positional sense, or the pace, to play the wide roles.
 
Lanolin said:
Yep, totally agree with all that. The first bit is something i've been saying for ages when people say you can't play certain ways with Keane in the side - you can, he just won't look as good as an individual. Yu just have to decide whether the pay off is worth it, and to me, it is.

When I saw the sub my initial thought was that Godfrey would go left back, Holgate right, and Digne would be pushed up into midfield. The change that we made was absolutely horrible, and I just don't think you can be surprised by it. It was an awful change in theory and even worse in practice.
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I'd go along with this. I was surprised we didn't swap Keane and Holgate. I'm not getting at Ancelotti, but I though we would go for that hybrid system we have against Liverpool, where it was sort of a cross between a back 4 and 3. I thought that day was an absolute tactical masterclass from Ancelotti and he got almost every position correct (Gomes struggled so not perfect but very close).

Yesterday though, it looked like Keane was in the Hybrid position, and Holgate was occupyng that CB come LCB role. Holgate was up against Benteke whereas Keane had Zaha. You'd really want both switched for me. I was surprised we moved both players out of position to do that as well. Just putting them into their regular positions would have matched it up better. Worst case scenario is they have to switch, Zaha has to go centrally and Benteke has to play off the left.

I think thats one concern with Ancelotti is he's a bit of a tinkerman. When you're struggling thats great, but if you have something that works it can end up overcomplicating things. I know you follow cricket, and I've just started doing some pre-season nets on my own the last week or 2, and I've really moved away from trying to overcompicate things. I have had a tendency to want to bowl 4 or 5 different balls an over as opposed to just trying to hit the top off off stump. I think Ancelotti can be a bit like that, some overs it goes amazingly, but a lot of the time you just lose your rhythm.
 


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