Migrant Crisis

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I don't think they had passports, did they?

How many of them do?

 

[peteblue]

i think you should start by reading it... then we will go from there. there are online resources if you have any difficulty

"In terms of how dense population is in the built up areas of these countries then I would imagine we have a lot more space than most".......

I quoted you verbatim, or did you not write that..........

 

[oldblue]

"In terms of how dense population is in the built up areas of these countries then I would imagine we have a lot more space than most".......

I quoted you verbatim, or did you not write that..........

i did. And I will answer any replies that relate to it

 

[monty]

What is becoming mixed up here is the difference between political and financial migrants, it is a moot point but a difference does exist between compulsion and choice. The international community throughout the world should be involved in this crisis, not by offering to 'take' people but in setting up sanitary camps with acceptable accommodation and all necessary resources including armed protection. Such camps should be as near to the homelands as possible enabling swift repatriation when the crisis has been settled. In these circumstances Turkey seems the most likely location but all funding should come from each member nation of the UN. If not Turkey why not Russia, they have substantial land mass and have an interest in the Syrian outcome.

As for economic migrants surely that is a euphemism for illegal foreigner without any rights here and they must be dealt with accordingly. The numbers involved have become tantamount to an invasion and must be stopped with the full weight of law.

 

[Caolam]

Missed points entirely !!!

I didn't say ISIS shouldn't be defeated, my point was that a big recruitment drive for ISIS and extreme Muslim groups is that you will be fighting the "Great Satan". If the US or it's allies fight and defeat these groups it just feeds the idea that the west is out to destroy Muslims and their beliefs.
If a UN force is put together which contains troops from all races and creeds then it will not be one ideology being defeated by another. It will be difficult assert blame. Here in Northern Ireland there was a saying which you always heard after acontroversial army incident and it was "the British Army is the best recruitment sargent for the "IRA". It would be the same in the middle east, if the US and her allies put boots on the ground they will be fulfilling the idea the extremists are peddling to those gullible enough to follow them.

When I referred to ordinary Muslims I was referring to the 99%+ who live their lives in peace.

 

[tsubaki]

As for economic migrants surely that is a euphemism for illegal foreigner without any rights here and they must be dealt with accordingly. The numbers involved have become tantamount to an invasion and must be stopped with the full weight of law.

That won't solve the matter because things here will always be better than things where they come from.

What should happen for economic migrants is that we / the EU establish a working visa system that people from wherever can apply for, it would come with a three / four / five year limit and allow people to work here, remit money home, have the full legal protection of every other worker in the economy etc but with no right to remain (unless certain conditions apply) and a condition that any criminal conviction and they would be removed. The visa would have to be applied for in the country of origin. Anyone not following that process would be removed home.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

What is becoming mixed up here is the difference between political and financial migrants, it is a moot point but a difference does exist between compulsion and choice. The international community throughout the world should be involved in this crisis, not by offering to 'take' people but in setting up sanitary camps with acceptable accommodation and all necessary resources including armed protection. Such camps should be as near to the homelands as possible enabling swift repatriation when the crisis has been settled. In these circumstances Turkey seems the most likely location but all funding should come from each member nation of the UN. If not Turkey why not Russia, they have substantial land mass and have an interest in the Syrian outcome.

As for economic migrants surely that is a euphemism for illegal foreigner without any rights here and they must be dealt with accordingly. The numbers involved have become tantamount to an invasion and must be stopped with the full weight of law.

Good points, well made.

 

[tsubaki]

I didn't say ISIS shouldn't be defeated, my point was that a big recruitment drive for ISIS and extreme Muslim groups is that you will be fighting the "Great Satan". If the US or it's allies fight and defeat these groups it just feeds the idea that the west is out to destroy Muslims and their beliefs.
If a UN force is put together which contains troops from all races and creeds then it will not be one ideology being defeated by another. It will be difficult assert blame. Here in Northern Ireland there was a saying which you always heard after acontroversial army incident and it was "the British Army is the best recruitment sargent for the "IRA". It would be the same in the middle east, if the US and her allies put boots on the ground they will be fulfilling the idea the extremists are peddling to those gullible enough to follow them.

When I referred to ordinary Muslims I was referring to the 99%+ who live their lives in peace.

The best recruiting sergeant for the IRA was discrimination, poverty, and a lack of willingness to genuinely, honestly and meaningfully engage with republicans; once that was removed, and once the IRA revealed that they were actually as bent as the Army was (over McCartney, Adams's brother and their antics over the disappeared), the situation in NI improved markedly.

In Syria and especially Iraq, the issues that the Sunni community had need to be acknowledged and dealt with, it is surely not a coincidence that prior to ISIS's rise the Iraqi government was massively corrupt and a whole load of promises made to the Sunnis forgotten.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

What is becoming mixed up here is the difference between political and financial migrants, it is a moot point but a difference does exist between compulsion and choice. The international community throughout the world should be involved in this crisis, not by offering to 'take' people but in setting up sanitary camps with acceptable accommodation and all necessary resources including armed protection. Such camps should be as near to the homelands as possible enabling swift repatriation when the crisis has been settled. In these circumstances Turkey seems the most likely location but all funding should come from each member nation of the UN. If not Turkey why not Russia, they have substantial land mass and have an interest in the Syrian outcome.

As for economic migrants surely that is a euphemism for illegal foreigner without any rights here and they must be dealt with accordingly. The numbers involved have become tantamount to an invasion and must be stopped with the full weight of law.

Mate, Who or what are economic migrants? I've noticed this becoming more of a buzz word recently as a way of supposedly separating people in need and not. If you mean people who want a better life and have left their home and communities in search of guarantees and security with regards to employment, education and healthcare then I understand and support their plight. Not having a go, I get what you're saying but an 'invasion' really?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I didn't say ISIS shouldn't be defeated, my point was that a big recruitment drive for ISIS and extreme Muslim groups is that you will be fighting the "Great Satan". If the US or it's allies fight and defeat these groups it just feeds the idea that the west is out to destroy Muslims and their beliefs.

Well, imo, if the 'moderate' muslims know what isis are about (And there's no denying they all know what isis have done and are doing) and would rather support them rather than wanting them wiped off the face of the earth, then there'll be no defeating them until all muslims are wiped out.

They're either for isis and what they stand for, or against them. No if's, no but's. They're supposed to be the peaceful religion, after all.

 

[Caolam]

The best recruiting sergeant for the IRA was discrimination, poverty, and a lack of willingness to genuinely, honestly and meaningfully engage with republicans; once that was removed, and once the IRA revealed that they were actually as bent as the Army was (over McCartney, Adams's brother and their antics over the disappeared), the situation in NI improved markedly.

In Syria and especially Iraq, the issues that the Sunni community had need to be acknowledged and dealt with, it is surely not a coincidence that prior to ISIS's rise the Iraqi government was massively corrupt and a whole load of promises made to the Sunnis forgotten.

Can't remember hearing or reading about any IRA volunteers saying they joined up because they believed there was an unwillingness to genuinely,honestly and meaningfully engage with republicans.
You also have to remember loyalist terrorists have killed and injuries members of the security forces and none of what you say applies to them.
I do agree that there was underlying causes for our troubles and for the wars in the middle east but what hooks the volunteers is the propaganda.

 

[Caolam]

Well, imo, if the 'moderate' muslims know what isis are about (And there's no denying they all know what isis have done and are doing) and would rather support them rather than wanting them wiped off the face of the earth, then there'll be no defeating them until all muslims are wiped out.

They're either for isis and what they stand for, or against them. No if's, no but's. They're supposed to be the peaceful religion, after all.

I thought my view was simplistic.

 

[ilikecheese]

Still going...for now

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Well, imo, if the 'moderate' muslims know what isis are about (And there's no denying they all know what isis have done and are doing) and would rather support them rather than wanting them wiped off the face of the earth, then there'll be no defeating them until all muslims are wiped out.

They're either for isis and what they stand for, or against them. No if's, no but's. They're supposed to be the peaceful religion, after all.

Jesus .... Right ..... Ok. Recruitment for ISIS is easy. Indiscriminate drone strikes, illegal western invasion in the name of oil and commerce. The role of the UK and the U.S. In the rise of Islamic extremism is plain to see. We cannot kill Islam and we cannot defeat ISIS through military force. It would just fan the flames. Anyways this is starting to veer off topic to reveal a typical under current of xenophobia and ignorance

 

[Fresh Prince of Belle Val]

Jesus .... Right ..... Ok. Recruitment for ISIS is easy. Indiscriminate drone strikes, illegal western invasion in the name of oil and commerce. The role of the UK and the U.S. In the rise of Islamic extremism is plain to see. We cannot kill Islam and we cannot defeat ISIS through military force. It would just fan the flames. Anyways this is starting to veer off topic to reveal a typical under current of xenophobia and ignorance

Calling fellow blues xenophobic and ignorant. Bad taste that.