Moyes linked with Villa and Spurs

[GrandOldTeam]

3 Of them under our previous owner who was a leech to the team. Under R.Lerner we had one manager for 3 years, who then quit and second one who was a poor choice. We are by no means Knee Jerk as Houllier is still with us and probably should have been sacked under most clubs by now. If anything I think Mr. Lerner has been a bit too lenient (both with Houllier&Results and with Martin O'Neil&Wages)

You've had a manager walk out in a dispute with your current owner. Your longest serving manager from those five you've had in the time Moyes has been at Everton. How did the days in court go for O'Neill vs Lerner?

The point was, citing Villa as beacon of management stability over Everton is ridiculous. You might be "stable" in comparison with other clubs, but a push factor for Moyes certainly wouldn't be stability/job security.

Lerner rarely ever speaks to the press about his ownership of Villa (or the NFL team Cleveland Browns). Certainly hasn't said Sell-to-Buy, let alone constantly.

He has, and Martin O'Neill confirmed as much - the proof was in the pudding with his resignation.

I think this is a common misconception about Martin O'Neil, the media were very much in love with him - the only reason MON was not given money was because he was told he needed to cut down our disgusting wage bill (which you quite rightly touch upon). MON's departure was more to do with the fact he wouldn't ship out people on high wages who he rarely played/were no longer making the grade (Carew 55k, Heskey 50k, Sidwell 40k, Warnock 40k, Beye 40k the list goes on). Infact, it is now believed MON didn't simply quit as his departure has gone to tribunal. Simply wouldnt get rid of money being spent in waste so wasn't given anymore money to spend.. It was more about reducing the wage bill than getting money back to spend on transfer fee's, as we were well aware that the players that needed to go were coming to an end of their contract or hadn't played enough to warrant their fee's. As soon as Houllier got rid of some of these players in January, he was instantly given money to spend - not saying we are Manchester City but I'd say we have more potential investment than you guys (not dissing your club as I think you have worked wonders with your very poor board)

Yadda, yadda, yadda. All translates as "We're up to our eye balls, we wont sign anyone without selling", hence "Sell to buy" - something you've been doing for the past few years. Something I was sick of hearing Martin O'Neill constantly moaned about;

http://www.thevillablog.co.uk/aston...villa-is-just-about-squad-size-and-economics/

Martin O'Neill, January 19th 2010
We are not looking at players at this minute because we have to sell. Do I have to sell to buy? We wouldn't be the only club in that position.
​

And with that in mind, to assert Villa would be a better proposition for Moyes for stability and investment is ridiculous. You need to sell to buy, and what you have to sell is of substantially lower resale value than Everton. Hell, we could sell Rodwell and Fellaini for twice any of your current crop - Ashley Young has even gone right off the boil.

3 Of them under our previous owner who was a leech to the team. Under R.Lerner we had one manager for 3 years, who then quit and second one who was a poor choice. We are by no means Knee Jerk as Houllier is still with us and probably should have been sacked under most clubs by now. If anything I think Mr. Lerner has been a bit too lenient (both with Houllier&Results and with Martin O'Neil&Wages)

You've had a manager walk out in a dispute with your current owner. Your longest serving manager from those five you've had in the time Moyes has been at Everton.

The point was, citing Villa as beacon of management stability over Everton is ridiculous.

Lerner rarely ever speaks to the press about his ownership of Villa (or the NFL team Cleveland Browns). Certainly hasn't said Sell-to-Buy, let alone constantly.

He has, and Martin O'Neill confirmed as much - the proof was in the pudding with his resignation.

I would have to disagree on the weaker side part as going forward we have some great options, but I do envy your central midfield (would kill for Arteta, Rodwell or Fellaini - or all three) but I think finishing above you for the last 3 seasons (i think?) proves we aren't a weaker side per se. That said, granted we have been piss poor this season, and the losing and drawing more this season is precisely the reason why this rumor mill started in the first place, manager needs a change.

Sorry for the terribly long post from a Rival fan, but some common misconceptions inthere that bug me a bit

Better check that fact mate, especially when finishing with that sentence.

2004/05
4th Everton
10 Aston Villa

2005/06
11th Everton
16th Aston Villa

2006/07
6th Everton
11th Aston Villa

2007/08
5th Everton
6th Aston Villa

2008/09
5th Everton
6th Aston Villa

2009/10
6th Aston Villa
8th Everton

But welcome - always good to have opinions from other fans.

 

[Shoody]

I did say 'I think', as I wasnt entirely sure where you guys had ended up.. but fairplay, I was wrong, would still say neither is an outright weaker side.

Regarding MON's resignation, he is legally unable to talk about it to the press so any quotes from him are pure falsification and rumour.

Much as I presume you know much more about the dealings of Everton FC than I would, I would also suggest that I know more about the dealings and runnings of Aston Villa FC. Yes, MON did have to sell in order for him to be sanctioned to buy players, but the transfer fee's was nothing to do with it. It was his ridiculous wages, anyway, Im not going to argue over your post, I've corrected and attempted to inform you a bit better, praised your club a long the way aswell. Even if it were sell-to-buy, he wasn't given Milner's money, simply because he refused to lower the wage bill, once the wage bill was lowered, money was released. 18m from Milner, agreed (the other £8m from that transfer was counted as Stephen Ireland). +£5m for Makoun, £5m bid for Emir Sphaic and finally a £6m bid for Charlie Adam. Anyway, arguing over money is pointless and I assume we'll only discover this over the next 3 transfer windows but I and many other Villa fans expect a complete Squad Overhaul over the next season or so.

Back on topic, I think if you dont get more money he will leave.

 

[chicoazul]

That multi quote was sensational. Welcome lid, but you got to start checking the league table a bit more.

 

[Shoody]

I try not to anymore! lol

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I did say 'I think', as I wasnt entirely sure where you guys had ended up.. but fairplay, I was wrong, would still say neither is an outright weaker side.

Regarding MON's resignation, he is legally unable to talk about it to the press so any quotes from him are pure falsification and rumour.

Much as I presume you know much more about the dealings of Everton FC than I would, I would also suggest that I know more about the dealings and runnings of Aston Villa FC. Yes, MON did have to sell in order for him to be sanctioned to buy players, but the transfer fee's was nothing to do with it. It was his ridiculous wages, anyway, Im not going to argue over your post, I've corrected and attempted to inform you a bit better, praised your club a long the way aswell. Even if it were sell-to-buy, he wasn't given Milner's money, simply because he refused to lower the wage bill, once the wage bill was lowered, money was released. 18m from Milner, agreed (the other £8m from that transfer was counted as Stephen Ireland). +£5m for Makoun, £5m bid for Emir Sphaic and finally a £6m bid for Charlie Adam. Anyway, arguing over money is pointless and I assume we'll only discover this over the next 3 transfer windows but I and many other Villa fans expect a complete Squad Overhaul over the next season or so.

Back on topic, I think if you dont get more money he will leave.

But the point was, Aston Villa aren't spending big. Whatever the reasons are, you're currently selling to buy.

I like Villa, they're a big club, on a par with us in many respects. Ran significantly better and I'm not just talking about the footballing side of things. Your events team there have some real talent and you laugh at us in terms of maximising revenue. Even when your spend per fan is considerably below ours, hence your ticket discounts.

But for me and I dare say the rest of the neutral footballing world, there's very little argument behind Moyes finding Villa a more attractive proposition than Everton. Your squad isn't as good, we were ridiculously even a few years back, but you've lost your stability, balance and management. Robert Pires.

 

[chicoazul]

So is Houllier universally disliked mate? Strange choice that by Lerner.

 

[davek]

5 managers in the time Moyes has spent at Evertom

Gregory resigned citing that the pressure of the job got too much for him; Graham Taylor resigned; O'Neill resigned. O'Leary was the only one who could be said to have been pushed.

As Martin O'Neil would tell you, that time has gone. Lerner has constantly reiterated their sell-to-buy policy. They're no different to us in that respect now. They've taken more than they've spent over the past few seasons and their wage bill eats more of their turnover than ours.

But we dont have a sell-to-buy policy anymore - that was the 'good old days' at EFC. Now the club sells and keeps hold of the bulk of the proceeds. Ergo: Villa - even if it's accepted they dont spend lots of money - would be an improvement on Everton.

Ah yes. The mighty Aston Villa. Losing and drawing more than they've won this season. A point from relegation. As potloss as us with a weaker side than us.

They're a big club in the doldrums with a billionaire in control. Ideal place for Moyes: he shows he can get Villa snapping at the heels of the CL places he'd be bankrolled - just like that idiot O'Neill was before he pissed the proceeds up against a wall.


I cant understand the debate here. Some people need to take off the Royal Blue spectacles: the vast majority of decent managers would see managing Everton as the quickest way to an early grave. We have nothing going for us other than a threadbare squad with a clutch of technically sound but essentially gutless players, and owners who offer nothing but a black hole to disappear into.

 

[Shoody]

So is Houllier universally disliked mate? Strange choice that by Lerner.

I think the Wolves game was the end of it, I was probably one of his biggest proponents, he inherited a squad that was fully MON's very much used to playing Hoofball to Carew, the fans were a bit disheartened by the approach and wanted nicer football... now we're starting to get there, but we're also nearing relegation.. He has a wage crisis to sort out and as much as we love lots of our players being English and breaking through (with a healthy amount of other British players in there too), its also part of the wages problem, we dont have enough continental players - again he'll fix that (probably with a load of french players).

But, that said, as much as we want to play nicer football it means nothing if we aren't winning football games.

Was all very much against him before January (After Sunderland at Home in particular), After January it was 50/50 imo, (some furious still and others - me included - thinking he would be better in the long haul). Up until the Wolves game most fans wanted him to stay until the end of the season at least (based on polls). But now, I think he has to go though, we havent improved since December, we've just had easier games and still got Sweet F*** All. I'd say its very much Anti-Houllier now.

It's just worse when we see Young, Bent and to a lesser extent Downing in the England squad but they (young in particular) being nowhere near as good when they come back to Birmingham.

 

[Tubey]

That multi quote was sensational.

I honestly can't remember an occasion where a discussion was "won" on the internet as decisively as that ^^

Personally, I reckon Moyes is going to rack up the 10 seasons in charge milestone then move on in the summer of 2012. No chance of him going this year, even if I wouldn't be that disappointed (to put it nicely) if he did go.

 

[Tubey]

I think the Wolves game was the end of it, I was probably one of his biggest proponents, he inherited a squad that was fully MON's very much used to playing Hoofball to Carew, the fans were a bit disheartened by the approach and wanted nicer football...

Can't really agree with that. Martin O'Neill was known for quick, decisive counter attacking, utilising the pace of Agbonlahor and Young. In fact, clubs feared people playing Aston Villa away from Villa Park! Carew was "Plan B" when he arrived. The problem was Gareth Barry leaving, which unsettled MON's playstyle and he panicked too much and changed your gameplan too far.

Then, of course, did his usual - pack his bags when he felt the familiar "sinking ship" sensation.

 

[Shoody]

We still managed it without Barry though in Milner, I'd agree on the fast counter attack but it was very much hoofball + knock down to one of these guys, Milner moved in for Barry and replaced him amicably we just haven't replaced him... nor have we replaced our backroom staff, murmurs that Houllier has only signed Gary McAllister (not liked at all by fans) and Robert Duverne (fitness coach involved with the rows at the French World Cup Camp) for his backroom staff and has hired from within the Youth set up for the rest of his backroom team. Gordon Cowans as First Team Coach and Rafael as Goalkeeping Coach, supposedly with Rafael doing Defensive Coaching duties too.... it's our defence which has been a shambles all season.

Milner and Barry were great for us... but it was our defence that was our best asset really, shocking to see it fall so quickly (something like 4th best last year to 4th worst this year in 6 months - without losing any defensive players , apart from Dunne coming back to pre-season looking like a morbidly obese Tellytubby.)

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Gregory resigned citing that the pressure of the job got too much for him; Graham Taylor resigned; O'Neill resigned. O'Leary was the only one who could be said to have been pushed.

All means the same.

To claim Villa would offer Moyes greater managerial stability is laughable and moronic.

But we dont have a sell-to-buy policy anymore - that was the 'good old days' at EFC. Now the club sells and keeps hold of the bulk of the proceeds. Ergo: Villa - even if it's accepted they dont spend lots of money - would be an improvement on Everton.

I'm not calling you a liar, but that isn't true. Actually, I'd say it was utter bollocks. We've reinvested every sale we've made right back into the side. Compare the net spend of Everton and Villa over the last three years... Villa have taken more than they've spent.

They're a big club in the doldrums with a billionaire in control. Ideal place for Moyes: he shows he can get Villa snapping at the heels of the CL places he'd be bankrolled - just like that idiot O'Neill was before he pissed the proceeds up against a wall.

O'Neill was there - on the back of finishing 5th he was told players would be sold, citing wages - wages which he was sanctioned to give. O'Neill had the carpet pulled from under him - exactly why he resigned. Lerner moved the goalposts.

I cant understand the debate here. Some people need to take off the Royal Blue spectacles: the vast majority of decent managers would see managing Everton as the quickest way to an early grave. We have nothing going for us other than a threadbare squad with a clutch of technically sound but essentially gutless players, and owners who offer nothing but a black hole to disappear into.

You need to take off your agenda, pushing spectacles. This is spectacularly piss poor even for you, to claim Aston Villa are superior to Everton, and that Moyes would be on drugs to turn down an offer at the mighty Villa? You're an embarrassment at times. Kopites would be proud of the amount of digs you take at Everton.

 

[chicoazul]

I think the Wolves game was the end of it, I was probably one of his biggest proponents, he inherited a squad that was fully MON's very much used to playing Hoofball to Carew, the fans were a bit disheartened by the approach and wanted nicer football... now we're starting to get there, but we're also nearing relegation.. He has a wage crisis to sort out and as much as we love lots of our players being English and breaking through (with a healthy amount of other British players in there too), its also part of the wages problem, we dont have enough continental players - again he'll fix that (probably with a load of french players).

But, that said, as much as we want to play nicer football it means nothing if we aren't winning football games.

Was all very much against him before January (After Sunderland at Home in particular), After January it was 50/50 imo, (some furious still and others - me included - thinking he would be better in the long haul). Up until the Wolves game most fans wanted him to stay until the end of the season at least (based on polls). But now, I think he has to go though, we havent improved since December, we've just had easier games and still got Sweet F*** All. I'd say its very much Anti-Houllier now.

It's just worse when we see Young, Bent and to a lesser extent Downing in the England squad but they (young in particular) being nowhere near as good when they come back to Birmingham.

Aye, I wasn't a huge fan of O'Neill's brand of football (nor am I in a position to comment as an Evertonian for the last decade) but it was mighty effective. We had some good close seasons chasing league positions between us and some cracking games, apart from that stoppage time Young winner at Goodison. I fumed.

Just couldn't see the logic in appointing Houllier, he should have stuck with McDonald until something better came up. Shame that Coyle moved six months before as he would have been perfect for you, and especially backed by money.

Anyway, the end of the season should be interesting. You're right back in the mire which I didn't expect. You'll still get a result at Goodison naturally but that's how we roll.

I honestly can't remember an occasion where a discussion was "won" on the internet as decisively as that

Depends on what stirs D-danger's interest, but when something does he's all over them like a rash. He uses blitzkreig tactics.

 

[Tubey]

We still managed it without Barry though in Milner, I'd agree on the fast counter attack but it was very much hoofball + knock down to one of these guys, Milner moved in for Barry and replaced him amicably we just haven't replaced him... nor have we replaced our backroom staff, murmurs that Houllier has only signed Gary McAllister (not liked at all by fans) and Robert Duverne (fitness coach involved with the rows at the French World Cup Camp) for his backroom staff and has hired from within the Youth set up for the rest of his backroom team. Gordon Cowans as First Team Coach and Rafael as Goalkeeping Coach, supposedly with Rafael doing Defensive Coaching duties too.... it's our defence which has been a shambles all season.

Milner and Barry were great for us... but it was our defence that was our best asset really, shocking to see it fall so quickly (something like 4th best last year to 4th worst this year in 6 months - without losing any defensive players , apart from Dunne coming back to pre-season looking like a morbidly obese Tellytubby.)

Barry acted like a human shield for your defense when there - I can't honestly say you've replaced him.

At Everton we know the value of that type of player; Lee Carsley did it for us for a long time and we did well because he did it. Fellaini does a lot of it now, just higher up the pitch (similar to Barry actually). You haven't had that since Barry and as such you're getting caught out too often when you go on the attack, resulting in negative tactics, hoofball to Carew etc.

Fellaini would do wonders for Villa tbh.

 

[trigger the blue]

Villa is a much much more appealing prospect as a manager than Everton are. And if (or rather when) Moyes goes, i daren't think who the candidates might be to replace him.

for me it would be Paul Lambert from Norwich