Moyes linked with Villa and Spurs

[davek]

Warnock's form dropped considerably tail end of last season, this season he couldnt find it and ended up having a tirade against the club (not the manager) saying he hated the club, hated the area and hated the fans and has since been, quite rightly, put in the reserves for training and I believe has only recently broken into the Reserves team, where he conceded a free kick that cost us the game lmao.

We think he was a player quoted (but not named) as saying he didnt care either way because the fans sung his name and was 'out of here anyway' - murmurs were Liverpool were coming back in for him but after Dalglish took over those murmurs vanished

Wouldnt be surprised with Dunne and Celtic, where'd you hear that?

Heard the Dunne stuff off Celtic supporters.

Warnock: that would tend to lose him sympathy with Villa supporters! I'd like to see him at Everton. We struggle with cover at LB and it could give us options to play Baines further up the park if need be.

 

[Matt Damon]

Absoultely no idea, we're debating this over at Villa now. We need a new-look defence, having spoken to some of James Collins' relatives it would appear Richard Dunne is dunne for and on his way out, with James possibly following after their bust up with the staff. Friedel cant be far from retiring, and his contract is up - might go to MLS and concentrate on his training camps. Reo Coker's contract is up and wont accept anything less than 50k a week and Galatasaray are supposedly after Petrov, Presume Ash Young will be going to Utd/Liverpool if we dont spend.

Soo,

Keeper,
Left Back (playing kids there hasnt worked at all)
Centre back - possibly 2 of them
Right back - unless we somehow manage to sign Kyle Walker, if not he'll need replacing
Centre mid - possibly 2, maybe 3 (replace Petrov + Coker + Houllier still wanted another in Jan even with these guys in C.Adam)
Winger - been playing Agbonlahor here and its just not working at all, but we need the rotation.
Attacking Midfielder/Second Striker - Possibly already have in Ireland if he sorts himself out but need to replace Young if/when he leaves even if Ireland stays.
Striker - for rotation, If Heskey leaves (dont think he will, but some do)

I think we simply have to get everything above 'Winger'. And then we need either a AMC who can also play on the wing or a Winger and a change in formation - to replace Ashley Young. Then Striker + new AMC/winger is purely luxury if (and unlikely) we get the amount of money. There is no doubt though we need a new defence, I think Dunne/Collins could have been saved under new management though, until they got drunk and lambasted all the staff including club legends.


Players Out:
Friedel (free)
Dunne
Collins
Beye (free)
Warnock
Ashley Young
Luke Young (free)
Stephen Ireland - if he doesnt sort himself out
Reo Coker (free)
Kyle Walker (returning from loan)
Petrov, possibly
Pires (free)

This is what I'm saying mate. That's virtually another XI that is needed and you simply don't have the capital to go out and get it without selling first.

There's massive uncertainty in your side, that coupled with precisely what your financial position really is.

The thing as well about the sponsorships. Deloitte included that sponsorship deal in that £109 million figure, with £10 million in one year! Which is wrong

Its actually 3.5 million PER YEAR over three years.

That's why that £109million figure is hugely hugely inaccurate!


Not only this.

There's a report saying FxPro have actually not taken up the deal and are remaining with Fulham. Since FxPro wished to reduce the payments to £2.5million per year.

Sorry mate. Villa are financially on their arse. More so than Everton are at the moment.

 

[Matt Damon]

What I'm saying Shoddy, whoever it was at your club who authorised the wage bill to go up to £80million a season, its them that have caused all your problems.

You've got serious problems just trying to reduce that.

But apparently the Interest on your debts has doubled since last year too. From £9million to £20million.

So that means even if revenues increased by £10million you're still losing money BEFORE even paying down the debt (just to service the interest).

Its good to see many Villa forums have picked up on this now though. Up to last summer it wasn't really even acknowledged. But now many Villa fans have woken up to just what the wage bill and the long term debts actually mean.


In many ways there are some parallels to Everton's position.

Except ours aren't quite that extreme. Costs haven't gone up as quick at Everton.

However, that slow increase in costs, isn't being met by increases in revenue as it should be.

That's the issue at Everton. We're slowly sinking into quicksand.

Whilst Villa jumped right in neck deep and have to do extreme things to stay above it now.


Everton's board are inept since they aren't increasing turnover like they should and could be.

This is illustrated by the unnecessary delay on this "Annex" we're having built which is not not going to be finished till next season.

 

[davek]

Villa's loans, as I understand it, are taken out from a Lerner family fund, and interest is paid back on it. That puts them in a different position to Everton who's debt is taken out from commercial banks who get jittery when the business starts to falter. It's the same difference between a country with lots of sovereign debt borrowed from the world's banking system and facing the discipline of their creditors and a country like Japan, who's debt is enormous (well in excess of most 'failing' West European states level of debt), but that debt is to domestic banks that can be relied on not to cause a crisis.

They're in better shape than Everton.

 

[Matt Damon]

Villa's loans, as I understand it, are taken out from a Lerner family fund, and interest is paid back on it. That puts them in a different position to Everton who's debt is taken out from commercial banks who get jittery when the business starts to falter. It's the same difference between a country with lots of sovereign debt borrowed from the world's banking system and facing the discipline of their creditors and a country like Japan, who's debt is enormous (well in excess of most 'failing' West European states level of debt), but that debt is to domestic banks that can be relied on not to cause a crisis.

They're in better shape than Everton.

Davek, that debt interest DOUBLING is taken directly from Aston Villa's 2010/2011 accounts lad.

(Dated Feburary 2011: they recorded a £37 million operating loss and BANK interest doubled from the 2009/2010 accounts)


So before you come on giving it rock all, as Danny says be sure of your facts.


Villa ARE NOT in a better financial position than Everton.

 

[davek]

Davek, that debt interest DOUBLING is taken directly from Aston Villa's 2010/2011 accounts lad.

(Dated Feburary 2011: they recorded a £37 million operating loss and BANK interest doubled from the 2009/2010 accounts)


So before you come on giving it rock all, as Danny says be sure of your facts.


Villa ARE NOT in a better financial position than Everton.

I could care less if it doubled or quadrupled, the point is who it's owed to and the likelihood they'd make life difficult for future borrowing.

Please read more carefully.

 

[Matt Damon]

I could care less if it doubled or quadrupled, the point is who it's owed to and the likelihood they'd make life difficult for future borrowing.

Please read more carefully.

ITS OWED TO BANKS. Their debt to banks has gone from £9million to £20million. That means their interest payments to BANKS has doubled.

If Lerner's covering everything why are they also borrowing from BANKS?

Their net debt is a whopping £130 million plus now.

Operating loss 2008: £46million
Operating loss 2009 : £48million
Operating loss 2010: £37million

So despite increasing turnover by £10million (not 30million as is being claimed elsewhere) they're still losing money.

which is £110million in loans to Lerner and £20million in loans to banks.

And they're still losing money hand over fist. Operating expenses £141million. "so called" revenues (vastly over stated for reasons described above, FxPro deal is over three years not one year): £109million

(actually 96 million )

Means they're losing this year between £32million and £45million.

So that means they've lost £131million in three years. Projected to be higher again this time round. Epic work that.




Know I know why Danny said you're embarrassing. Because you are lad.

 

[Matt Damon]

You need to take off your agenda, pushing spectacles. This is spectacularly piss poor even for you, to claim Aston Villa are superior to Everton, and that Moyes would be on drugs to turn down an offer at the mighty Villa? You're an embarrassment at times. Kopites would be proud of the amount of digs you take at Everton.

Danny you said it best lad.


Everton's weakness is our board being INCAPABLE of improving infrastructure and therefore stadium and related revenues.

They're also spinning liars who make disingenuous statements too.



However, one things for certain.

At least unlike Villa we've not allowed wages to literally become a noose around the club's neck.


Kenwright does need to go. But I for one will not be holding Lerner up as some example of ownership. His introduction lead to total financial illdiscipline at Villa.

And he's not expanded their revenues more than £15million in three years.

Everton's revenues have grown by similar amounts but parallel to Villa down mainly to TV broadcasting and sponsorship (which is still lower than it should be).


So all in all. Everton's had sluggish growth like Villa without the ridiculous costs (wages). If we'd of lost £130million in three years I'd at least want something to show for it. i.e. 55,000 or more capacity at Goodison


So you can take your head out of Lerners arse now Davek.

 

[EFCNIK]

Lol Stephen Warnock went to the World Cup and Leighton Baines didnt. Banter!

 

[davek]

ITS OWED TO BANKS. Their debt to banks has gone from £9million to £20million. That means their interest payments to BANKS has doubled.

If Lerner's covering everything why are they also borrowing from BANKS?

Their net debt is a whopping £130 million plus now.

Operating loss 2008: £46million
Operating loss 2009 : £48million
Operating loss 2010: £37million

So despite increasing turnover by £10million (not 30million as is being claimed elsewhere) they're still losing money.

which is £110million in loans to Lerner and £20million in loans to banks.

And they're still losing money hand over fist. Operating expenses £141million. "so called" revenues (vastly over stated for reasons described above, FxPro deal is over three years not one year): £109million

(actually 96 million )

Means they're losing this year between £32million and £45million.

So that means they've lost £131million in three years. Projected to be higher again this time round. Epic work that.




Know I know why Danny said you're embarrassing. Because you are lad.

This debt was run up via Reform Acquisitions through Lerner's own company in the States. This is the debt you need to train your mind on, sonny. It's charged to the club at 2% p.a. Villa may well have had recourse to borrowing from a commercial bank trifling amounts (in comparison with the 'in-house' debt), but the point remains: Villa are more secure than EFC...unless, that is, Lerner calls the debt in and demolishes the value of his own investment (the £68M he paid Ellis).

*sigh*

 

[Matt Damon]

This debt was run up via Reform Acquisitions through Lerner's own company in the States. This is the debt you need to train your mind on, sonny. It's charged to the club at 2% p.a. Villa may well have had recourse to borrowing from a commercial bank trifling amounts (in comparison with the 'in-house' debt), but the point remains: Villa are more secure than EFC...unless, that is, Lerner calls the debt in and demolishes the value of his own investment (the £68M he paid Ellis).

*sigh*

Trifiling amounts?

Trifiling amounts?

It's DOUBLED in 12 months.

And they're still losing money. Averaging £35million a season.


I can't wait to Danny comes on later and multiquotes you all over the shop.

 

[davek]

Trifiling amounts?

Trifiling amounts?

It's DOUBLED in 12 months.

And they're still losing money. Averaging £35million a season.


I can't wait to Danny comes on later and multiquotes you all over the shop.

I accept your climbdown on the Villa in-house debt.

 

[Matt Damon]

I accept your climbdown on the Villa in-house debt.

You know about as much about economics as Ed Balls. Take your head out of Randy Lerners arse.


the "in-house debt" as you put it, is now up from £90million to £117million, and bank debt is up from £9million to £20million.

Only in the world of Ed Balls and Davek, does that imply it being a good thing.

COSTS at Villa have actually gone up there too outstripping turnover. Deloitte's figure is unaudited and grossly exaggerated.

I mean FFS they quoted a sponsorship in 2010, a deal that was actually a 1/3 the amount spread over three years!

A sponsorship deal that's since been cancelled at the end of 2010/2011 season!



Your persistent claims over Everton being in a worse state than Villa are as much as a joke as David O'Keefe's Toffeeweb "Everton going into administration" claims the bad mong.

You jump on anything going with your agenda. You massively jumped on that administration thing too you bad tit.

 

[Neiler]

Sterling work Matt lad, you saved my fingers here, im going to start a Vbookie on who goes wallop first Brum or Villa. Ill do it after Blackburn get relegated - go team Venkey.

*You can do bette then Emiliy Blunt as well lad.

 

[Matt Damon]

Werll done Matt lad, you saved my fingers here, im going to start a Vbookie on who goes wallop first Brum or Villa. Ill do it after Blackburn get relegated - go team Venkey.

As you know Neiler me and you are well on the same page. But you shouldn't let Davek get away with spouting rubbish like he has been the last few days. He's been acting like a Kopite with some of his pronouncements on here.


Birmingham are even more in the ... than Villa, that's the ONLY good news for Shoddy like.

Its like both Birmingham club's completely lost the plot on keeping costs down. Splurging it out everywhere. THERE WILL COME A RECKONING ONE DAY and it's close which of them will face it first.



I'm furious over our board though. This latest delay on the annex. Disgrace.

That's why Everton are stop start stop start.

Because we can't get infrastructure in place.


Lack of strategic thinking from the board, or when there is (Elstone has tried, but he's taken a knock in my eyes over this Annex delay and reported scrimping on the Annex project)...

Everton should be moving heaven and earth to get extra capacity on Goodison. i.e. extra turnover.


Instead, Kenwright et al are sitting on their arses. Moyes' plannings being screwed up by Kenwright etc. Making us stop-start-stop-start because there's no substantive turnover increases other than new TV money every three years.

Kenwright doesn't do strategic thinking though.

Although he's reportedly on a fantastic wage as a club scout though....