Moyes linked with Villa and Spurs

[Matt Damon]

Could be mate, could be.

No chance. Financial fair play regs. If they want to play in Europe they simply cannot.

 

[Matt Damon]

When you say it really quick it almost makes sense, see you later:

Milner
Young
Downing
Reo Cooker
Carew

Wonder if these sums will be used to pay down the debt, who do they owe money to again?

Why does a billionaire owner need to sell his best players? Are his loans interst free as has been stated? Why has he transfered club assets to his own holding company? Why does a billionaire owner allow his club to borrow from banks? Why is the debt in the name of Aston Villa football club to be paid back to Randy Learner (billionaire)? If it looks/smells like a rat and likes cheese it prob is a rat.

The club cant function without making a loss, which is worrying for them in the sense, that as the Villa supporter was saying they could pay the debt over 20 years - yes that right 2031 when Villa are back in the black - if they borrowed nothing else of course - which they will becuase they have to.

Davek's self loathings got him into a situation where he thinks anyone with money = good and anyone without = bad.

Not only that. How on earth can Villa be losing so much money every year. By the end of next season they'll be owing him £200million.

That's approaching a substantial wedge of his fortune. Is he really going to continue in that?

 

[TheFinnFan]

No chance. Financial fair play regs. If they want to play in Europe they simply cannot.

what does that mean, i dont understand??? is there such rules??

 

[Matt Damon]

what does that mean, i dont understand??? is there such rules??

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/protectingthegame/clublicensing/index.html

Club Financial Control Panel
A major development in increasing and improving the transparency and integrity of the system has been the creation of the independent Club Financial Control (CFC) Panel in March 2009. The CFC panel is chaired by the former prime minister of Belgium, Mr Jean-Luc Dehaene, and is composed of legal and financial experts who are independent of national associations, leagues or clubs and whose tasks are to ensure that the UEFA club licensing system is applied correctly across all 53 UEFA member associations and that clubs which have qualified for UEFA's club competitions have fulfilled the criteria defined in the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations.

The functioning of the CFC panel, including its decision-making authority, is governed by Arts. 17-23 of the UEFA Organisational Regulations, 2009 edition.

Furthermore, the CFC panel will also play an essential part in implementing and monitoring the financial fair play concept, which was unanimously approved by the UEFA Executive Committee in September 2009. As such, the CFC panel will have an important role in helping to improve the financial fairness in European competitions and the long-term stability of club football across Europe, combined with the aim of stimulating long-term investment (youth development and upgrading of sporting facilities) over short-term speculative spending.

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/Clublicensing/01/50/09/12/1500912_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

[davek]

When you say it really quick it almost makes sense, see you later:

Milner
Young
Downing
Reo Cooker
Carew

Wonder if these sums will be used to pay down the debt, who do they owe money to again?

Why does a billionaire owner need to sell his best players? Are his loans interst free as has been stated? Why has he transfered club assets to his own holding company? Why does a billionaire owner allow his club to borrow from banks? Why is the debt in the name of Aston Villa football club to be paid back to Randy Learner (billionaire)? If it looks/smells like a rat and likes cheese it prob is a rat.

The club cant function without making a loss, which is worrying for them in the sense, that as the Villa supporter was saying they could pay the debt over 20 years - yes that right 2031 when Villa are back in the black - if they borrowed nothing else of course - which they will becuase they have to.

What's the fixation with debt? All clubs have it. Barcleona are in debt to the tune of £400M. It matters a great deal who the debt is controlled by. In this instance it's the owner and he's determined that if he's to continue shouldering that debt then changes will be made to the way the club does business. Sounds pretty reasonable when you've just seen a failure manager piss a hundred million quid up against the wall. The sale of players will be a recycling exercise. The evidence we have to date points to the prospect of the money raised going to the manager (whomever that wll be now).

This really is desperate stuff believing that Villa are worse off than Everton. I mean come on, open your eyes, we'd be staring into the abyss if player sales this summer weren't going to pay off interest payments and part of the principal debt owed to outside finance houses.

It's a joke to compare Everton to Villa.

 

[Muggins]

Any news on when in the summer Kenwright is selling??

This may influence whether Moyes is still there next season.

 

[Neiler]

What's the fixation with debt? All clubs have it. Barcleona are in debt to the tune of £400M. It matters a great deal who the debt is controlled by. In this instance it's the owner and he's determined that if he's to continue shouldering that debt then changes will be made to the way the club does business. Sounds pretty reasonable when you've just seen a failure manager piss a hundred million quid up against the wall. The sale of players will be a recycling exercise. The evidence we have to date points to the prospect of the money raised going to the manager (whomever that wll be now).

This really is desperate stuff believing that Villa are worse off than Everton. I mean come on, open your eyes, we'd be staring into the abyss if player sales this summer weren't going to pay off interest payments and part of the principal debt owed to outside finance houses.

It's a joke to compare Everton to Villa.

Ha ha good old Mr MBNA, shouldering the debt, fighting the good fight - i honestly feel really sorry for Villa fans.

I agree mate it is a joke, its the Liverpool model all over again, i just have to sit back and watch Randy killing that club, you say debt isnt relevent - Kool and the gang. Lets see, in the meantime ill watch Randy run up debt and plunder their revenue and watch their best players go the way of Barry and Milner, ha ha in a cost cutting exercise.

 

[davek]

Ha ha good old Mr MBNA, shouldering the debt, fighting the good fight - i honestly feel really sorry for Villa fans.

I agree mate it is a joke, its the Liverpool model all over again, i just have to sit back and watch Randy killing that club, you say debt isnt relevent - Kool and the gang. Lets see, in the meantime ill watch Randy run up debt and plunder their revenue and watch their best players go the way of Barry and Milner, ha ha in a cost cutting exercise.

I dont say it isn't relevant, I say it's the context in which debt is held that's important. For example, Barcelona are £400M in debt - but their debt is good because they run it up with regional banks that wouldn't dare put them in the brown stuff over it (not to mention they have huge commercial firepower that'll cover it as long as they continue doing the business on the pitch). Villa's debt is also the owners debt. He'll want to prune and then compete on the pitch to grow the business to make it self-sustaining. He got the club gratis so the losses to him should be seen in that light too. He'll carry the debt forward and Villa will be in no danger of collapse, there's scope there for a successful turning around of their fortunes. Then there;s Everton type debt: mortgaged up to the hilt with banks who want their pound of flesh and dont care if the first team squad are sold to get it. Added to that we have no scope to grow the business and create reveneue and no will/means for the board to inject investment.

Three clubs and three kinds of debt - and we all know which one faces the most desperate future.

 

[Neiler]

I dont say it isn't relevant, I say it's the context in which debt is held that's important. For example, Barcelona are £400M in debt - but their debt is good because they run it up with regional banks that wouldn't dare put them in the brown stuff over it (not to mention they have huge commercial firepower that'll cover it as long as they continue doing the business on the pitch). Villa's debt is also the owners debt. He'll want to prune and then compete on the pitch to grow the business to make it self-sustaining. He got the club gratis so the losses to him should be seen in that light too. He'll carry the debt forward and Villa will be in no danger of collapse, there's scope there for a successful turning around of their fortunes. Then there;s Everton type debt: mortgaged up to the hilt with banks who want their pound of flesh and dont care if the first team squad are sold to get it. Added to that we have no scope to grow the busines and create reveneue and no will/means for the board to inject investment.

Three clubs and three kinds of debt - and we all know which one faces the most desperate future.

Why would he want to prune the debt when hes charging £4.5m interest on the promisary notes. Thats before you look at the interest being charged by other loans outside the Learner stable.

 

[chicoazul]

yes, YES, YES.

 

[davek]

Why would he want to prune the debt when hes charging £4.5m interest on the promisary notes. Thats before you look at the interest being charged by other loans outside the Learner stable.

With respect mate, £4.5M interst payment to this feller isn't worth getting out of bed for. He's charging rock bottom interest rate IIRC. We're not seriously suggesting this billionaire is involved with Villa to plunder that level of cash are we?

 

[Neiler]

With respect mate, £4.5M interst payment to this feller isn't worth getting out of bed for. He's charging rock bottom interest rate IIRC. We're not seriously suggesting this billionaire is involved with Villa to plunder that level of cash are we?

It seems worth getting up for in Brum mate. You have accused the current board of gross negligance/incompetence for running up a similar interest rate here, and thats just to him, never mind the banks. So your club is in debt for 130 mill, most of it to you, what do you do take about 5% of turnover to line your pockets.

 

[davek]

It seems worth getting up for in Brum mate. You have accused the current board of gross negligance/incompetence for running up a similar interest rate here, and thats just to him, never mind the banks.

They actually took the Bear Stearns securitization on at a rate of interest that turned a £30M borrowing into a £68M repayment.

 

[Neiler]

They actually took the Bear Stearns securitization on at a rate of interest that turned a £30M borrowing into a £68M repayment.

I know, but when it comes to your comments about Learner and our board, different rules seem to apply for the same offence in fact worse for me on Learner. How can you laud one and castigate the other, especially as Learner is paying the interest to himself, imagine if Bill was doing that.

 

[davek]

I know, but when it comes to your comments about Learner and our board, different rules seem to apply for the same offence in fact worse for me on Learner. How can you laud one and castigate the other, especially as Learner is paying the interest to himself, imagine if Bill was doing that.

I'm looking at what looks to be a man who's had a go in Randy Lerner. Time will tell whether he sinks Villa, or more likely sells them on when he gets a good opportunity. But the evidence we have so far is that the feller came into Villa and backed the footballing side of things > it didn't work out to the extent everyone there wanted > finances were in a mess from the point of view of borrowing from Lerner himself and something had to be done about it. There's nothing to suggest that he wont reorganise the business plan and have another tilt at making Villa work.

Compare that with Everton where we've had a board in place for 11 years and have given zero opportunity to their manager to crack into the top echelon of the game, and worse still are making him pay for their lack of dynamism and failed decisions by selling the players from underneath him.

That's why I make the distinction.