Moyes Potential Replacement

[Jags..class]

I'm not, I'm judging him on his obvious inability to organise a defence and stop shipping goals by the lorry load EVERY single season. Steve Bruce had the 6th best defensive record with Wigan in his last season in charge. Martinez took over and the very next season they had the second worst. Speaks volumes.

Moyes was different, he would make it hard for his teams to be beaten, Moyes would look on how to stop the other teams and how to stop their main men, which is why Moyes get his defensive nickname from. So most of will worry now if we get a manager who likes to attack more then defend cos we're used to Moyes teams.

 

[neil999]

Martinez is at least an interesting appointment....things will change,we might finish 10th or we might win something! personally I'm willing to take the gamble

 

[orly]

I'm not, I'm judging him on his obvious inability to organise a defence and stop shipping goals by the lorry load EVERY single season. Steve Bruce had the 6th best defensive record with Wigan in his last season in charge. Martinez took over and the very next season they had the second worst. Speaks volumes.

QED, sir. But apparently this is all still too difficult a concept for people to understand, and we actually only think Martinez is crap because he "only" got relegated (and lots of boss managers have, too).

In moyes time in charge, Middlesbrough got to the UEFA cup final, Birmingham won the league cup, Portsmouth won The FA cup, as did Wigan.

But none of the four managers in charge at those clubs should be entertained by Everton, and certainly not someone with a record as dismal as Martinez.

 

[CardinalSin]

Jags has answered it there for me mate , I'm not a huge supporter of Martinez but I think to dismiss him on the back of the relegation is potentially short-sighted. If he'd stated up by one point & one the FA Cup I think he'd be perceived as good the relation takes the shine off but again trying to be fair if he'd been beaten in the final he'd probably be further down many lists.

I think all it does is Illustrate the fine margins at play really .

Maybe if spoken to he'll explain how you work with your players available and 'try' and find a manageable system , on the flexibly point I know he's been criticised by some (me included) for a perception he can be weak . Part of the evidence for that is he changed the system last year when some say he was pressured by his backroom . Now that could be perceived as either weak or flexible I suppose.

As I've said above Sheeds I'm not judging him on the relegation, but the defensive records of both Swansea and Wigan that he's been in charge of. The FIRST thing you make sure you get right, is the defence. You then look for creativity and getting goals in to the team but the priority should always be sorting your defence first and foremost. If you ship goals at the rate his team's have then you're always going to be up against it. As I've said, you don't need world class defenders either you just need to play a certain way to make yourselves hard to beat and make sacrifices if need be to make up for lack of any quality at the back. I keep going back to that stat that Wigan went from having the 6th best defensive record to second worst in one season since his appointment with the same players. Thats shocking.

 

[orly]

Martinez is at least an interesting appointment....things will change,we might finish 10th or we might win something! personally I'm willing to take the gamble

Or of course, we could gamble on a man who is very likely to win the Portuguese title, a league so weak that, er, they have a team in the EL final, have a team that won the the CL less than a decade ago (more recent than Dutch, French leagues) and from a club where two of its most recent coaches have gone on to decent success.

It's mad that people would rather appoint Martinez than properly explore the pereira option.

 

[sheeds]

QED, sir. But apparently this is all still too difficult a concept for people to understand, and we actually only think Martinez is crap because he "only" got relegated (and lots of boss managers have, too).

In moyes time in charge, Middlesbrough got to the UEFA cup final, Birmingham won the league cup, Portsmouth won The FA cup, as did Wigan.

But none of the four managers in charge at those clubs should be entertained by Everton, and certainly not someone with a record as dismal as Martinez.

Certainly I'm not doing that at all , the same as I'm not saying you think he's crap "only because he was relegated' . This is a debate and as a result opinion is split with obviously a fair few in the middle.

Moyes has gone and we need a replacement , Martinez is a name mentioned (probably one of the favourites ) and is being discussed. The defensive issues you've raised do worry me absolutely but Eddie howe's (who you mentioned earlier) complete lack of experience at anything approaching top level worries me as well .

Seriously you dismiss Martinez and I can see your reasons for that but when I asked for a serious shortlist you gave me the bloke from Porto and Eddie Howe .

 

[Penno]

Or of course, we could gamble on a man who is very likely to win the Portuguese title, a league so weak that, er, they have a team in the EL final, have a team that won the the CL less than a decade ago (more recent than Dutch, French leagues) and from a club where two of its most recent coaches have gone on to decent success.

It's mad that people would rather appoint Martinez than properly explore the pereira option.

This

Vitor please

 

[Baines' left foot]

I don't understand why people think we'll be finishing bottom half of the table next season. Look at the teams below us. Besides Liverpool there's West Brom, Swansea, Stoke and West Ham. I can't see any of them or even the teams below them getting above us next season.

Early next season prediction no matter what happens this summer: 7th.

 

[Jags..class]

Or of course, we could gamble on a man who is very likely to win the Portuguese title, a league so weak that, er, they have a team in the EL final, have a team that won the the CL less than a decade ago (more recent than Dutch, French leagues) and from a club where two of its most recent coaches have gone on to decent success.

It's mad that people would rather appoint Martinez than properly explore the pereira option.

Jesus Christ, Pereira is the same gamble as Martinez for different reasons, to be fair I wouldn't mind Martinez or Pereria.

 

[sheeds]

As I've said above Sheeds I'm not judging him on the relegation, but the defensive records of both Swansea and Wigan that he's been in charge of. The FIRST thing you make sure you get right, is the defence. You then look for creativity and getting goals in to the team but the priority should always be sorting your defence first and foremost. If you ship goals at the rate his team's have then you're always going to be up against it. As I've said, you don't need world class defenders either you just need to play a certain way to make yourselves hard to beat and make sacrifices if need be to make up for lack of any quality at the back. I keep going back to that stat that Wigan went from having the 6th best defensive record to second worst in one season since his appointment with the same players. Thats shocking.

That defensive record is a worry certainly but I've no idea of what mitigation Martinez may have or whether is reasonable although I'm aware he was moaning about injuries.

The crux for me is moyes has gone and we need to appoint a replacement , stand out managers a few and far between so the shortlist will almost certainly be made up of managers below us in the league. As a result the various records will be poorer than ours and if they weren't they'd be getting the job out manager has I'd think. I Do accept and even agree with the concerns over Martinez and I was wasn't terrified when he was the RS No 1 target so I'm clearly not going to be his top supporter now.

Appointing managers with no premier league experience is seriously risky and for appointing overseas managers falls into the same criteria . We have to judge don't we whether the risk is worth it and what the pro's and cons are. We are at a crossroads and I hope the board are having just such debates with voices supporting various managers as I think it needs to be debated because it's a massive decision .

Who would your shortlist be mate ?

 

[davek]

'Pereira' 'Peirera': it's like a religious chant from a cult.

I've never known anything like it.

 

[ijjysmith]

Or of course, we could gamble on a man who is very likely to win the Portuguese title, a league so weak that, er, they have a team in the EL final, have a team that won the the CL less than a decade ago (more recent than Dutch, French leagues) and from a club where two of its most recent coaches have gone on to decent success.

It's mad that people would rather appoint Martinez than properly explore the pereira option.

I've not seen anyone say they'd have Martinez over Pereira mate. Not that i've looked that hard for it.

For me it's more that Pereira isn't being explored for whatever reason, so people are just getting behind who it is likely to actually be.

 

[orly]

Certainly I'm not doing that at all , the same as I'm not saying you think he's crap "only because he was relegated' . This is a debate and as a result opinion is split with obviously a fair few in the middle.

Moyes has gone and we need a replacement , Martinez is a name mentioned (probably one of the favourites ) and is being discussed. The defensive issues you've raised do worry me absolutely but Eddie howe's (who you mentioned earlier) complete lack of experience at anything approaching top level worries me as well .

Seriously you dismiss Martinez and I can see your reasons for that but when I asked for a serious shortlist you gave me the bloke from Porto and Eddie Howe .

How long does your serious shortlist need to be?

My point is that if was a two man shortlist or a list as long as a kopite woman's beard Roberto Martinez should be absolutely nowhere near it.

Lets say I had a five man shortlist.

pereira at number one easily.
Thomas tuchel
Eddie Howe
David weir

I'd even have Benitez on there ahead of Martinez. Took the sixth best defence in the league, destroyed it in a single summer, took Wigan down after five dismal seasons.

Their football isn't even that good either.

 

[Coach]

What is good about Martinez?

 

[Jags..class]

I've not seen anyone say they'd have Martinez over Pereira mate. Not that i've looked that hard for it.

For me it's more that Pereira isn't being explored for whatever reason, so people are just getting behind who it is likely to actually be.

Its also hard for us to judge him as he from a different league where we have seen Martinez for a few years now so that why there is more talk for Martinez adnd like said he more likely then Pereira