NCAA (US College) Sports

mezzrow said:
On a football basis, you are correct. Auburn was historically terrible until the late 50's. Next to Everton football, Auburn football has no history. Oklahoma is an excellent example and I would suggest Indiana basketball, myself. It is the most important thing in the state, and it has been in the wilderness for an achingly long time.
On a cultural basis however it is the same in Gadsden and L4. By six, you must declare Roll Tide or War Eagle. It defines your life. You live in the same family and often in the same house with THEM. No thing matches football in importance in Liverpool or in Alabama. I don't mean no sport, I mean no thing. It's about how close you have to rub up against each other day in and day out and the intensity of the outcome for each side. Also, both are in places that are treated like crap by the rest of the country they have to live with. I base it more on people and culture than football. Anybody from Bootle or Opelika will see it almost immediately in the other if they take a good look at it.
If we are both ever in Bessemer at the same time, I'd love to discuss this over the seafood plate at the Bright Star. I've got about 30+ years on you and I've seen a lot.

Q: Why did they fire Ray Perkins?
A: There was nobody left in the state of Alabama who wasn't mad at him.
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Wait, are you an Auburn guy? I would have never dreamed of hearing anyone mention Gadsden on an Everton site. I'm from Rainsville - just about 45 minutes north of there. But I live outside Atlanta now.

The bold part of the quote is exactly my experience. A while back there was a big kick up on here about that exact same thing, where I (and maybe a couple of other people) were trying to argue with the Liverpudlians on here that I could absolutely understand the heat of the Derby because we had the same thing here with the Iron Bowl, but no matter how I put it, it just wouldn't be accepted that some dumb American could possibly understand any such thing. But you've absolutely nailed it there.

As much as it pains me to admit it, I'll grant you the cultural comparison between Everton and Auburn. That is the single hardest part of being an Everton fan for me - because I see it too. That's why I emphasized the football side, to make myself feel better. :pint2:
 
CrimsonToffee said:
Wait, are you an Auburn guy? I would have never dreamed of hearing anyone mention Gadsden on an Everton site. I'm from Rainsville - just about 45 minutes north of there. But I live outside Atlanta now.

The bold part of the quote is exactly my experience. A while back there was a big kick up on here about that exact same thing, where I (and maybe a couple of other people) were trying to argue with the Liverpudlians on here that I could absolutely understand the heat of the Derby because we had the same thing here with the Iron Bowl, but no matter how I put it, it just wouldn't be accepted that some dumb American could possibly understand any such thing. But you've absolutely nailed it there.

As much as it pains me to admit it, I'll grant you the cultural comparison between Everton and Auburn. That is the single hardest part of being an Everton fan for me - because I see it too. That's why I emphasized the football side, to make myself feel better. :pint2:
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On the Alabama front, yes I'm straight WDE. I grew up in Florida, went to undergrad at a crew/lacrosse type place that was really good at basketball, and did post grad at Indiana U. synched up with the last undefeated season in NCAA basketball in 1976 - I was in the band and saw it all. Mama was a Tallassee Tiger who grew up between Lake Martin and Lake Jordan. If you know how to properly pronounce Jordan in Coosa county, you know what I mean. I spent my childhood summers in Montgomery and/or Alex City, and can tell you whether a Lane Cake is good or bad. I haven't found a bad Lane Cake yet, but I haven't stopped looking. We both get to mock Gators in jorts, though. We can share that with giving Kopites no quarter.

Next lecture is about how we're the Bears and they're the Packers.
 
CrimsonToffee said:
Orgeron at Nebraska would be entertaining at least. But I don't think there's anyone out there that could really revive that program in this era. No real recruiting base and just way too much ground to make up against their geographical / conference rivals.

I will preface the Everton part with one comment: my girlfriend constantly comments on how weird it must feel for me to be an Everton fan and an Alabama fan at the same time. And she's not wrong, of course. But I wouldn't say Everton is the Auburn of English football. That's a massive insult. Auburn has nowhere near as much historical success. They're more like Newcastle or Leeds - they have a few successes sprinkled here and there over the years, but not enough to be one of the truly big boys except in their own heads.

For me, Everton is more like, say, Oklahoma - probably a top-5 all-time program, true blue-blood with success in multiple different eras of the game. But one that has had trouble staying truly competitive at the very top in recent years - despite a flew flashes of promise here and there - and hasn't really won much since the 1980s (2000 for Oklahoma, 1995 for Everton).

In my estimation, the comparisons would be something like this:

Alabama -> Manchester United (most championships, all-time greatest & iconic coaches)
Notre Dame -> Liverpool (lots of success and history, hate them both, ha)
Ohio State / USC -> Arsenal (again, lots of success in different eras, but not as many trophies as those above them)
Oklahoma -> Everton (see above)
Michigan -> Aston Villa (old-school blue-blood that really should be a bigger deal than they currently are but can't quite get it together)
Clemson -> Chelsea / Manchester City (a sprinkling of success in the distant past, but very successful only in the most recent era - can they sustain it?)

I'll be 38 in three days, so I just missed out on the Coach Bryant era by a couple of years. My first memory of Alabama football is the 1992 Sugar Bowl win vs. Miami. So, yeah, I very much lived through the dark years between Stallings and Saban. Dubose, Franchione, Price, Shula - what a run!
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Really rather disgusted here with Oklahoma being mentioned as analogous with Everton and not a mention of Texas at all (top 5 all-time in wins). :yellow:
 

BlueTX said:
4 titles since 1960 (same as Oklahoma and Notre Dame). Michigan has won 1 title in the last 75 years.

Oklahoma spent 70 years in the Big 8, which was a 2-team football conference.
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I'm not saying Texas is chopped liver or anything. They're obviously a top-10 all-time program too. But you have to allow that college football existed long before 1960. I mean, heck, Oklahoma won 3 championships in the 50s, right before your comparison cut-off.

Same with Michigan - just because most of their titles came pre-1950 doesn't mean they don't exist. And my whole comparison with Michigan -> Villa was specifically because of their lack of modern success, anyway. That was the point I was making. The comparisons were meant to be from the beginning of the sport until now in both cases.
 
CrimsonToffee said:
Orgeron at Nebraska would be entertaining at least. But I don't think there's anyone out there that could really revive that program in this era. No real recruiting base and just way too much ground to make up against their geographical / conference rivals.

I will preface the Everton part with one comment: my girlfriend constantly comments on how weird it must feel for me to be an Everton fan and an Alabama fan at the same time. And she's not wrong, of course. But I wouldn't say Everton is the Auburn of English football. That's a massive insult. Auburn has nowhere near as much historical success. They're more like Newcastle or Leeds - they have a few successes sprinkled here and there over the years, but not enough to be one of the truly big boys except in their own heads.

For me, Everton is more like, say, Oklahoma - probably a top-5 all-time program, true blue-blood with success in multiple different eras of the game. But one that has had trouble staying truly competitive at the very top in recent years - despite a flew flashes of promise here and there - and hasn't really won much since the 1980s (2000 for Oklahoma, 1995 for Everton).

In my estimation, the comparisons would be something like this:

Alabama -> Manchester United (most championships, all-time greatest & iconic coaches)
Notre Dame -> Liverpool (lots of success and history, hate them both, ha)
Ohio State / USC -> Arsenal (again, lots of success in different eras, but not as many trophies as those above them)
Oklahoma -> Everton (see above)
Michigan -> Aston Villa (old-school blue-blood that really should be a bigger deal than they currently are but can't quite get it together)
Clemson -> Chelsea / Manchester City (a sprinkling of success in the distant past, but very successful only in the most recent era - can they sustain it?)

I'll be 38 in three days, so I just missed out on the Coach Bryant era by a couple of years. My first memory of Alabama football is the 1992 Sugar Bowl win vs. Miami. So, yeah, I very much lived through the dark years between Stallings and Saban. Dubose, Franchione, Price, Shula - what a run!
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Nope. No way am I associating Everton with OU!
 
CrimsonToffee said:
I'm not saying Texas is chopped liver or anything. They're obviously a top-10 all-time program too. But you have to allow that college football existed long before 1960. I mean, heck, Oklahoma won 3 championships in the 50s, right before your comparison cut-off.

Same with Michigan - just because most of their titles came pre-1950 doesn't mean they don't exist. And my whole comparison with Michigan -> Villa was specifically because of their lack of modern success, anyway. That was the point I was making. The comparisons were meant to be from the beginning of the sport until now in both cases.
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I'm largely just messing with you. But I also recognize that in the earliest days of college football the media selection of national titles was egregiously skewed to the Northeast and Midwest. Thus the 1960 cutoff.

Also, I acknowledge my own bitterness about our football program. Arguably the biggest, most fertile recruiting ground in the nation and the biggest money-making program in the country has not performed up to scratch in the last decade plus.
 

BlueTX said:
I'm largely just messing with you. But I also recognize that in the earliest days of college football the media selection of national titles was egregiously skewed to the Northeast and Midwest. Thus the 1960 cutoff.

Also, I acknowledge my own bitterness about our football program. Arguably the biggest, most fertile recruiting ground in the nation and the biggest money-making program in the country has not performed up to scratch in the last decade plus.
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Yeah, no worries. And certainly everything you've said here is absolutely true!
 
CrimsonToffee said:
Orgeron at Nebraska would be entertaining at least. But I don't think there's anyone out there that could really revive that program in this era. No real recruiting base and just way too much ground to make up against their geographical / conference rivals.

I will preface the Everton part with one comment: my girlfriend constantly comments on how weird it must feel for me to be an Everton fan and an Alabama fan at the same time. And she's not wrong, of course. But I wouldn't say Everton is the Auburn of English football. That's a massive insult. Auburn has nowhere near as much historical success. They're more like Newcastle or Leeds - they have a few successes sprinkled here and there over the years, but not enough to be one of the truly big boys except in their own heads.

For me, Everton is more like, say, Oklahoma - probably a top-5 all-time program, true blue-blood with success in multiple different eras of the game. But one that has had trouble staying truly competitive at the very top in recent years - despite a flew flashes of promise here and there - and hasn't really won much since the 1980s (2000 for Oklahoma, 1995 for Everton).

In my estimation, the comparisons would be something like this:

Alabama -> Manchester United (most championships, all-time greatest & iconic coaches)
Notre Dame -> Liverpool (lots of success and history, hate them both, ha)
Ohio State / USC -> Arsenal (again, lots of success in different eras, but not as many trophies as those above them)
Oklahoma -> Everton (see above)
Michigan -> Aston Villa (old-school blue-blood that really should be a bigger deal than they currently are but can't quite get it together)
Clemson -> Chelsea / Manchester City (a sprinkling of success in the distant past, but very successful only in the most recent era - can they sustain it?)

I'll be 38 in three days, so I just missed out on the Coach Bryant era by a couple of years. My first memory of Alabama football is the 1992 Sugar Bowl win vs. Miami. So, yeah, I very much lived through the dark years between Stallings and Saban. Dubose, Franchione, Price, Shula - what a run!
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I’m admittedly a fan of Nebraska. I have a lot of family there. I don’t think it’s hopeless but I do think it’s time to be realistic. They will likely never be 90s Nebraska again. They can be a program that resembles the likes of Wisconsin, Iowa, and Baylor. With the resources, facilities, and support that the program has, there’s no reason with the right hire that can’t happen.
 
BlueTX said:
Also, I acknowledge my own bitterness about our football program. Arguably the biggest, most fertile recruiting ground in the nation and the biggest money-making program in the country has not performed up to scratch in the last decade plus.
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There isn't a great comparison for your program. It lacks the extensive trophy case of a United, but has fallen on similarly hard times on the field while remaining a financial powerhouse. Sarkisian brought in some substantial talent, and if you can hang with Alabama then you should be able to make some noise in the conference.
 

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