New Everton Manager

[MartSlinger]

There shouldn't be, we aren't exactly a screaming model of success at the moment.

Everton has expectations though, that won't change imo.

But thats the issue mate, the fans. They have unrealistic expectations and we need to reign it in.

Its like with Managers, all want the big names but its never going to happen. We shouldnt have gotten Ancelotti as that has made the fanbase think we can get the likes of Conte.

Its the same with players, if we dont sign megastars for £20m+ then theres a portion of the fanbase who'll kick up a stink cause they want "better", despite Everton not being good for almost 3 decades.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

But thats the issue mate, the fans. They have unrealistic expectations and we need to reign it in.

Its like with Managers, all want the big names but its never going to happen. We shouldnt have gotten Ancelotti as that has made the fanbase think we can get the likes of Conte.

Its the same with players, if we dont sign megastars for £20m+ then theres a portion of the fanbase who'll kick up a stink cause they want "better", despite Everton not being good for almost 3 decades.

Yeah I don't think that will ever change though mate, I think that we have as a set of fans certain expectations whether we should or not is a different kettle of fish.

I do always wonder if other sets of fans are as split as us, like you say with signings, we could get a £6m player who becomes player of the season but will never be deemed good enough because he wasn't a huge name.

 

[blueblue]

Any talk of moyes having a glass ceiling is absolute nonsense talk and this myth about him not being able to win trophies.

Of course he had a glass ceiling when he was last here. The big 4 at the time were on a different planet with their budget and he constantly had to sell his best players year on year so the gap between us and the big 4 at the time was like that of the Premier league and championship. He effectively won the league for us 3 or 4 times in what was realistic by finishing 5th multiple times and 4th once.

Excuses could be made for his jobs at utd, sociedad and Sunderland. Utd has been difficult for all since ferguson left but being the immediate successor to the best manager of all time is impossible. Any of his fresh ideas would be instantly heckled as how could they be more effective than Sir alex in the players eyes. and as soon as he lost the faith of one or two players the whole place stank and it would always be the case. Plus he never really had enough time to stamp his mark on them.

The other 2 jobs he again didn't have over a season with and its just not his style to be a short term fix, Sunderland were doomed to failure anyway and had awful injury luck while he was there and Sociedad.. well no British manager does well in Spain and again he'd hardly learnt the language before being shown the door.

I'm not saying now is the time for him to join us and I felt he should have come instead of ancelotti 18 months ago, plus I'm not sure how it will work with brands. However i just felt the unjustified comments about him needed rectifying

I think that is a well put , well reasoned argument.
I find myself agreeing with everything you say.

That kind of commonsense has no place here.

 

[toffeeblue9]

I absolutely agree we are crying out for an identity, I said the other day the only time in the last 6 years I could remember an identity was under Martinez.

I just don't see it with Potter, but I might be wrong I would admit that. I get what you are saying but Brighton didn't finish 5th, so its impossible to say he is great if they finished 5th I might sit up and take notice. They didn't though.

I get the xG stuff, however to me it is a bit fictional, no-one will look at the league table and go, "ooooh Brighton finished 5th on xG" They finished 16th. xG might be down to look or crap finishing, its not exactly things we are blessed with at Everton - I want something more tangible then xG. Thats just me though I get people who base the ideology on statistics, but 5th on xG or 16th in the league I know which one I will look at.

I don't watch enough of Brighton to have much more of a rounded view on their play, but I just think he isn't ready for a club like ours right now.

The thing is, if Brighton had finished 5th he would have been offered the Spurs job by now. The xG thing to me is a flag to say we should have a better look at him. By its definition, nobody consistently underperforms or overperforms vs their xG over a prolonged period (well, actually only Lionel Messi has broken the model over a prolonged period). Eventually actual results reflect the average. It was developed as a system to help professional gamblers identify value in the short term. Potter's numbers scream "value" from that point of view.

Having said that, I'm not saying Potter is the one we should be going all out for, I'm saying that the numbers plus a few other factors (inc his ability to forge an identity and his past performance in his career) make him worth doing more digging on. If we are being thorough about the search, I'd hope we are doing our due diligence on candidates and all I'd suggest is that he should be on the list of people we do our homework on. If we do that and other candidates are more suitable, no problem. If all we ever do is appoint people who've won stuff or whatever, we will always miss out on the best up and coming managers. Klopp was appointed by Dortmund after getting Mainz relegated, Pochettino was appointed by Southampton after he had been sacked by Espanyol with them bottom of the league. There's always more to it than the results on the pitch because context is important.

 

[blueblue]

I absolutely agree we are crying out for an identity, I said the other day the only time in the last 6 years I could remember an identity was under Martinez.

I just don't see it with Potter, but I might be wrong I would admit that. I get what you are saying but Brighton didn't finish 5th, so its impossible to say he is great if they finished 5th I might sit up and take notice. They didn't though.

I get the xG stuff, however to me it is a bit fictional, no-one will look at the league table and go, "ooooh Brighton finished 5th on xG" They finished 16th. xG might be down to look or crap finishing, its not exactly things we are blessed with at Everton - I want something more tangible then xG. Thats just me though I get people who base the ideology on statistics, but 5th on xG or 16th in the league I know which one I will look at.

I don't watch enough of Brighton to have much more of a rounded view on their play, but I just think he isn't ready for a club like ours right now.

I think we have moved on from being the club to give a young manager the chance to prove himself.
Let him do that elsewhere.

The only person of that kind that I see having a chance is Duncan and he will have been seen at work every day at Everton for years. From the first minute they will have believed that he may have a chance to get the job or not.

 

[Debunkology]

The one thing I remember about when Moyes was in charge was not enjoying going to games the majority of the time.

The only time I actually enjoyed the way we played was Martinez's first season. But Moyes did have players playing for him. And fit.

But thats the issue mate, the fans. They have unrealistic expectations and we need to reign it in.

Its like with Managers, all want the big names but its never going to happen. We shouldnt have gotten Ancelotti as that has made the fanbase think we can get the likes of Conte.

Its the same with players, if we dont sign megastars for £20m+ then theres a portion of the fanbase who'll kick up a stink cause they want "better", despite Everton not being good for almost 3 decades.

We would have been far better off if Moshiri secretly invested.

Him coming in has been to his own detriment in regards to expectations.

If he came in, in 2004 it would be different. But in reality he's just another billionaire at a Premier League club.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Community Shield winning manager Mr D. Moyes.

Well I take it all back then, what a glittering career he has had.

 

[thevorpalblade]

Exotic Foreign Managers with
Exotic Names with
Exotic Pronunciations with
A presumably huge treasure chest to spend.
Equates to a perceived Exotic Goodness.

Unknown Managerial Personalities with
Unknown Playing Styles.
Equates to the Unknown.

Engenders excitement.
But let's not get carried away

My opinion is vacillating widely and daily.

Ultimately we are starting at a perceived pretty low threshold.

Therefore I'll happily support a young British manager: whoever they are.

Provided, of course, that they are passionate for our club and are committed to a (hopefully) successful future with us, and not merely journeymen.

 

[jamieni]

I think we have moved on from being the club to give a young manager the chance to prove himself.
Let him do that elsewhere.

The only person of that kind that I see having a chance is Duncan and he will have been seen at work every day at Everton for years. From the first minute they will have believed that he may have a chance to get the job or not.

I suspect the likes of Potter could be in the mix as they’d not clash too much with Brands. Having a big name manager with strong opinions on recruitment etc is maybe something he wants to avoid after Ancelotti.

If we do appoint Potter or someone similar then I think we’re in for a few big players leaving fairly quickly. It’s not the sort of appointment that’s going to keep James or Richy interested, but I’m fine with them leaving if the team performs better as a result.

 

[Debunkology]

Exotic Foreign Managers with
Exotic Names with
Exotic Pronunciations with
A presumably huge treasure chest to spend.
Equates to a perceived Exotic Goodness.

Unknown Managerial Personalities with
Unknown Playing Styles.
Equates to the Unknown.

Engenders excitement.
But let's not get carried away

My opinion is vacillating widely and daily.

Ultimately we are starting at a perceived pretty low threshold.

Great poetry mate.

 

[Terrarian]

This modern love always always lets me down

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

The only time I actually enjoyed the way we played was Martinez's first season. But Moyes did have players playing for him. And fit.

Agree mate. Don’t get me wrong Moyes did a great job. He made us hard to beat, had players working their socks off and always up for it in games, made some boss buys and even though we did play good footy in spells after 11 years or so of Moyes I just got bored watching us.

 

[jamieni]

Agree mate. Don’t get me wrong Moyes did a great job. He made us hard to beat, had players working their socks off and always up for it in games, made some boss buys and even though we did play good footy in spells after 11 years or so of Moyes I just got bored watching us.

In Martinez’ first season we gave some teams an absolute hiding and went to OT and won. Was a pleasure to watch. It was all downhill from there in terms of recent years.

 

[h8kurdt]

Exotic Foreign Managers with
Exotic Names with
Exotic Pronunciations with
A presumably huge treasure chest to spend.
Equates to a perceived Exotic Goodness.

Unknown Managerial Personalities with
Unknown Playing Styles.
Equates to the Unknown.

Engenders excitement.
But let's not get carried away

My opinion is vacillating widely and daily.

Ultimately we are starting at a perceived pretty low threshold.

Therefore I'll happily support a young British manager: whoever they are.

Provided, of course, that they are passionate for our club and are committed to a (hopefully) successful future with us, and not merely journeymen.

Parklife!

 

[GoSoccerToffees]

Wow. It's been like watching the stages of grief play out before my very eyes reading this thread since Monday.

Potter? Moyes? Howe?

NSNO

Conte, Sarri, Simeone, Mancini, as a fall-back someone like Nuno or Emery.

The idea that the club would entertain someone like Potter or Howe is crazy. They've been burnt twice within the last five years having these types of coaches in place.

This Xg stuff, this is football not baseball. It's borne of errors, set-pieces, nicking goals against play. It's not a cold statistical play-sheet.

Ancelotti was the closest in points we've come to the CL in years, whether a quirk of fate meant this season that only meant 10th.

Whether it was horrible to watch at times, the results improved in a very awkward season

We likely are going to outspend Spurs, Arsenal, West Ham and Leeds this summer.

We need a coach that immediately commands respect or it will fall apart quickly with players and fans alike.