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New Everton Stadium

West Ham have 50k season ticket holders and they're the fourth biggest club in their city.

If Everton are successful andarlet the ticket prices right, we will sell out or at the very least get close to capacity.
Their cheapest season ticket is £499 and their highest being £899, with two tiers in between. For London that's pretty competitive!

So it's not unsurprising with the uptake of season tickets this season. My question would be whether they will be able to sustain such levels?

And with regards to Everton, the price structure aspect is not the simple process that many people think it will be as it'll have three elements.

It will ultimately have to be appealing enough to attract an increase in attendance, while increasing operations profits and servicing the cost.

For all the extra seats provided and the revenue they'll bring (including corporate), the cost of relocating the current capacity will have to be met.

In laymen's terms, some of the income from the current season ticket holders will have to be reallocated to paying for the swanky new stadium.

Thus reducing prices to fill the stadium will be a big no-no, so the club will look at what they can achieve at or slightly above the current figures.
 
I had to go to Wigan for a couple of months as part of my apprenticeship in the late 80's. Wigan RL were winning everything at the time and were always at Wembley. Football finals were always 100k so I couldn't understand why rugby finals were around the 88k figure.
So they explained it to me. The average rugby fan was bigger and so they needed more room.
There's the answer ladies and gentlemen...we all need to get fatter to fill our sparky new ground...problem solved.
On it.
 
People in this thread seem to be wilfully ignoring the issue of cost.

A 65,000 seater stadium would cost significantly more than a 55,000 seater stadium if both were built to the same standard. As promising as Moshiri's statements have been I doubt he's going to write us a blank cheque for the construction of a new ground so that money, and thus that debt will be an issue.

It makes far more sense to build a great stadium with room to expand if and when we are successful than to take a huge gamble on future success. If we get to where people think Moshiri wants us to be then funding expansion would not be an issue.

Living within your means, to an extent, is important.

This is the whole ball game, it's not down to us! We can say we want 70k or we want 50k, but it's up to Moshiri and the figures that have come out of the number crunching machine. They will know that it will cost more to build a 60k than a 50k but they will also know that it cost more to add those extra 10k at a later date than it would to start with.

While we remain without tangible success it will be harder to fill the stadium and prices will need to be reduced, so if Moshiri green lights a 60k Stadium that would give the clearest indication of his ambition for us. If he sticks with 50k then we know financially we couldn't afford to go bigger.

My problem is with the people bitching about that we couldn't fill or nearly fill a bigger stadium, with a slightly discounted pricing structure (or success) it shouldn't be an issue and a few thousand empty seats is neither here or there, you only had to look behind the support structures at Goodison to see that. If we don't use one tier up in the gods it won't be visually half as bad.
 
I understand what your saying and agree up to a point. However it would be cheaper to build a larger stadium ,than to increase capacity at a later date. You would have to rehire the construction plant and workforce. The materials would cost more,and you may lose some existing capacity if the build exceeds the close season. In addition to this the reason you would be building the extension, the potential extra support, would be unable to attend and may drift away again. It's a calculated gamble certainly but all success in business is built on risk. The bigger the risk the bigger the gain.

Probably been said before but -
What's the problem with having an upper tier (top balcony type) that is openened for the big demand games. No season tickets in there and it doesn't need to be around the whole ground.
If, in the future there is more demand for season tickets or a more regular 'walk-up' then think about a gradual opening on a more regular basis.

Once the game is underway your sight line is toward the pitch and you wouldn't notice any upper tier.
As for 'looking bad'? Wouldn't apply. (And we make the main camera position on the same side as the vacant upper tier)
 

Ok, sliding roof may be a bit fanciful, but I still think they should build to maximum stretch capacity and have a proper method of masking or hiding the unused seats for the lower-demand games.

Probably a silly idea but something along the lines of a rail system.
Say the stadium is 50k over 2 tiers and 3rd tier could be built taking taking that past 60k.

Given the 3rd tier is closest the roof have a retractable screen from seat level to roof on a rail that masks the seating.

If demand exceeds the 50k pull back the screens to open up alternate sections of the ground. So capacity would be anything from 50k to 60k depending what stands need to be opened up.

I imagine as the tier is closest the roof, masking sections then with screens wouldn't detract from the overall stadium as its relatively out-of-sight.
 
Currently we have 32k season ticket holders. For most clubs this is not indicative of a business that would struggle to sell 55k out most weeks.

The reality is every week for the past knows how many seasons we have sold every ticket that is not an obstructed view out. For a lot of games they are sold out too. This season every game will be sold out, minus empty seats within the away end and segregation.

Put simply 40k (or 39k) is much too small. This has also been done against a backdrop of 2 11th place finishes, our worst home record in our history and being trophyless for 21 years.

After the FA cup win (1995) our average attendances shot up by 50% from the 20's to the 30's. Some of this has to be accounted for with the growing popularity of the league and wider trends but there was undoubtedly a big jump on the back if winning something. I would say if we were to win a major trophy we would probably see a 30-35% increase in crowds (which is my estimate for the difference it made in 95).

Currently it is difficult to estimate what our natural average would be as we sell out every week. If we had an unlimited stadium I suspect our average at Goodison with no obstructed views would probably be around 45k. With a 30% increase on that that may come from a bit of success are excitement of a new beginning (akin to the mid 90's) you have another 15k. That gives us 60k. Even if I were to take the more cautious estimate of 39k and add 33% onto this we end up with 52k.

There is also added potential with it being a top class stadium in a world famous area like the Centre of Liverpool on world famous docks. Over a longer period we would see increased external interest. You also have to factor in the premier league looks set to continue to grow in popularity with 3 years worth of bumper TV deals and widening access for all teams. I'm not sure a % figure can be easily put onto that but it would be in addition to the 52-60k figures I have suggested.

I think these figures are a more realistic starting base than looking at what our attendances were in either the 80's or the 60's. The 60's when we averaged more than anyone was a half a century ago. It was a different world and a completely different game. Tickets were the equivalent of about a tenner.

Likewise the 80's is a poor example. Yes we may have only averaged mid 30's even when successful, but Liverpool only averaged low 40's and United were mid 40's. Clubs like Arsenal, Spurs, Aston Villa were all getting gates in the 20/30's. The reality is football was deeply unpopular (relative to today) and more of a niche sport.

If we can build a successful team that wins a trophy or can get into the top 4 I have little doubt that in a ground with no obstructed views we would be averaging towards 60k. If we remain where we are as a football club I would imagine our average would be close to the mid 40's and with a new location would push towards 50k. This stands a good chance of growing year on year.

The club have done some fantastic work in enticing young fans. Over the space of 10-15 years we have seen kids season tickets at under £100 and we have a remarkably high number of young fans as season ticket holders (I thought it was now 10k? under 18?). If simplistically we say that there are 1000 new young season ticket holders (to replace a 1k who graduate) over a 10 year period it means you add 10k to your average. I would estimate 50% remain season ticket holders after graduation, but it's still a 5k increase every year. It slowly builds a loyal basis which we are seeing the benefits of.

Anyway a long post. I wouldn't be fixated on capacity. I'd rather have a fantastic ground in a great location holding 50k with great corporate facilities than a box in Kirkby holding 65k. That being said I wouldn't be worried about selling out a 60k stadium. If we were successful we would sell even bigger stadia out than that, but that's the big if.
 
All this obsession with Liverpool and our new stadium being bigger, is a nonsense, stop judging Everton in terms of them. To pretend we have the numbers of supporters they do is nonsense (just like them claiming to be as big as Utd).

At the right price point maybe we could fill a 60,000 most weeks (possibly?) but how big their odd looking stadium is just doesnt come into it.

In all honesty we are nowhere near as big as Liverpool. You go anywhere in the UK and you meet Liverpool fans not Everton fans. In all honesty Liverpool could regularly average 80k. The only issue they have is their support is declining as not winning the league in 27 years has meant they are less popular than say 30 years ago relative to other teams.

That being said, if we had a bit of success we could sell 60k no issue.
 
Probably a silly idea but something along the lines of a rail system.
Say the stadium is 50k over 2 tiers and 3rd tier could be built taking taking that past 60k.

Given the 3rd tier is closest the roof have a retractable screen from seat level to roof on a rail that masks the seating.

If demand exceeds the 50k pull back the screens to open up alternate sections of the ground. So capacity would be anything from 50k to 60k depending what stands need to be opened up.

I imagine as the tier is closest the roof, masking sections then with screens wouldn't detract from the overall stadium as its relatively out-of-sight.
Aye, that was my thinking but it's just a case of making sure the screening isn't just a case of pulling a curtain across. Needs to maintain a bit of integrity.
 

Ok, sliding roof may be a bit fanciful, but I still think they should build to maximum stretch capacity and have a proper method of masking or hiding the unused seats for the lower-demand games.

I know you're talking about a slightly different thing but the stadium itself must have a retractable roof. It would immediately be an asset the city doesn't currently have.

Their cheapest season ticket is £499 and their highest being £899, with two tiers in between. For London that's pretty competitive!

So it's not unsurprising with the uptake of season tickets this season. My question would be whether they will be able to sustain such levels?

KUMB has been a really interesting read since they moved. Lots of tourists (some in Chelsea and Tottenham shirts!) and faux footy types. It's a really good case study as to how not to transition grounds.
 
Currently we have 32k season ticket holders. For most clubs this is not indicative of a business that would struggle to sell 55k out most weeks.

The reality is every week for the past knows how many seasons we have sold every ticket that is not an obstructed view out. For a lot of games they are sold out too. This season every game will be sold out, minus empty seats within the away end and segregation.

Put simply 40k (or 39k) is much too small. This has also been done against a backdrop of 2 11th place finishes, our worst home record in our history and being trophyless for 21 years.

After the FA cup win (1995) our average attendances shot up by 50% from the 20's to the 30's. Some of this has to be accounted for with the growing popularity of the league and wider trends but there was undoubtedly a big jump on the back if winning something. I would say if we were to win a major trophy we would probably see a 30-35% increase in crowds (which is my estimate for the difference it made in 95).

Currently it is difficult to estimate what our natural average would be as we sell out every week. If we had an unlimited stadium I suspect our average at Goodison with no obstructed views would probably be around 45k. With a 30% increase on that that may come from a bit of success are excitement of a new beginning (akin to the mid 90's) you have another 15k. That gives us 60k. Even if I were to take the more cautious estimate of 39k and add 33% onto this we end up with 52k.

There is also added potential with it being a top class stadium in a world famous area like the Centre of Liverpool on world famous docks. Over a longer period we would see increased external interest. You also have to factor in the premier league looks set to continue to grow in popularity with 3 years worth of bumper TV deals and widening access for all teams. I'm not sure a % figure can be easily put onto that but it would be in addition to the 52-60k figures I have suggested.

I think these figures are a more realistic starting base than looking at what our attendances were in either the 80's or the 60's. The 60's when we averaged more than anyone was a half a century ago. It was a different world and a completely different game. Tickets were the equivalent of about a tenner.

Likewise the 80's is a poor example. Yes we may have only averaged mid 30's even when successful, but Liverpool only averaged low 40's and United were mid 40's. Clubs like Arsenal, Spurs, Aston Villa were all getting gates in the 20/30's. The reality is football was deeply unpopular (relative to today) and more of a niche sport.

If we can build a successful team that wins a trophy or can get into the top 4 I have little doubt that in a ground with no obstructed views we would be averaging towards 60k. If we remain where we are as a football club I would imagine our average would be close to the mid 40's and with a new location would push towards 50k. This stands a good chance of growing year on year.

The club have done some fantastic work in enticing young fans. Over the space of 10-15 years we have seen kids season tickets at under £100 and we have a remarkably high number of young fans as season ticket holders (I thought it was now 10k? under 18?). If simplistically we say that there are 1000 new young season ticket holders (to replace a 1k who graduate) over a 10 year period it means you add 10k to your average. I would estimate 50% remain season ticket holders after graduation, but it's still a 5k increase every year. It slowly builds a loyal basis which we are seeing the benefits of.

Anyway a long post. I wouldn't be fixated on capacity. I'd rather have a fantastic ground in a great location holding 50k with great corporate facilities than a box in Kirkby holding 65k. That being said I wouldn't be worried about selling out a 60k stadium. If we were successful we would sell even bigger stadia out than that, but that's the big if.

Great post mate, people overlook we've sold nearly every unobstructed view seat for years. Better facilities and additional capacity would see crowds swell I'm sure.
 
I would expect any football club like any business when engaging in major expansion to 'futureproof' it. Put simply to build the biggest and best you can possibly afford. If you do not success can be your biggest failure.
 
There are limitations also with selling out our ground due to the number of Season tickets. The ability to purchase 'walk-ups' is greatly diminished and the fact that in 85-90% of occasions it is not possible to do so puts people off attempting for the other 10-15% of time. If we had 20k walk ups, we could, imo, sell teh majorityu of them.

When I was a youngster and my Dad had to work weekends on and off, there was no way we could get a season ticket, so my entire experience of getting to watch a game involved queueing up outside the park end ticket office (The old one) and hoping to get a seat. I think we failed maybe once or twice. A capacity that allows the walk-ups also allows those who aren't as fortunate as me and my dad now, to be able to plan weekends in advance, and therefore increases your match going fan base.
 

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