New Everton Stadium

[davek]

We can’t walk away from this project. It would resign the club’s future to nothingness forever. Is that what you want?

The stadium has to happen.

If it's between nothingness and oblivion then nothingness. Where there's life there's hope.

 

[Woolly Blue]

If it's between nothingness and oblivion then nothingness. Where there's life there's hope.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with Philosophical Dave, I think I prefer Angry Dave.

 

[davek]

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with Philosophical Dave, I think I prefer Angry Dave.

I dont think I've ever been angry on here. Irritated, yes.

 

[Woolly Blue]

I dont think I've ever been angry on here. Irritated, yes.

i think you mean irritating mate.
Something I've never been, obviously

 

[roydo]

If it's between nothingness and oblivion then nothingness. Where there's life there's hope.

I do understand your concern mate, but. I am of the view that the financing of this place will be easily affordable, long term structured repayments, in cahoots with a major property player. With the LCC thing making the whole project "Low Risk" to the major player.

In other words, we wont out right own the place for decades. But we will have control over the income we can derive from it.

 

[davek]

I do understand your concern mate, but. I am of the view that the financing of this place will be easily affordable, long term structured repayments, in cahoots with a major property player. With the LCC thing making the whole project "Low Risk" to the major player.

In other words, we wont out right own the place for decades. But we will have control over the income we can derive from it.

It's just too long a period to feel comfortable with.

The payback per annum was based on a £300M stadium. It wont be £300M. Never in a million years will this run to that budget. I'd say you could almost double the figure in the end.

And what then? Still doable you might say. Then I'd say that our ability to make it just doable would be premised on the nature of the industry and its fortunes. What if collective bargaining - as is likely - breaks down over broadcasting and the elite clubs fashion their own package or sell their broadcasting rights individually? We would be swimming in debt for a generation with no real means other than charging more at a stadium to service that debt and pay it down.

It's way too precarious. Moshiri is gung ho on it because he wouldn't be here if it went arse up.

 

[roydo]

It's just too long a period to feel comfortable with.

The payback per annum was based on a £300M stadium. It wont be £300M. Never in a million years will this run to that budget. I'd say you could almost double the figure in the end.

And what then? Still doable you might say. Then I'd say that our ability to make it just doable would be premised on the nature of the industry and its fortunes. What if collective bargaining - as is likely - breaks down over broadcasting and the elite clubs fashion their own package or sell their broadcasting rights individually? We would be swimming in debt for a generation with no real means other than charging more at a stadium to service that debt and pay it down.

It's way too precarious. Moshiri is gung ho on it because he wouldn't be here if it went arse up.

It might end up being a lease job. Its the Everton ground, Everton generate and retain the lions share of the income, but never actually owned by the club. If the lease is long, and watertight, win win imo.

 

[Goat]

It might end up being a lease job. Its the Everton ground, Everton generate and retain the lions share of the income, but never actually owned by the club. If the lease is long, and watertight, win win imo.

I can bet that the 60k fans that sit in it every week wont really give a flick if its been paid for or not.

Missus had her works xmas night out in the Bramley Moore pub last night, I dropped her off and picked her up, rough as arse that place.

 

[davek]

It might end up being a lease job. Its the Everton ground, Everton generate and retain the lions share of the income, but never actually owned by the club. If the lease is long, and watertight, win win imo.

Is that the ghost of John Houlding I hear laughing?

 

[roydo]

Is that the ghost of John Houlding I hear laughing?

Your knowledge trumps mine mate. Not a clue.

 

[davek]

Your knowledge trumps mine mate. Not a clue.

...former Everton President and owner of Anfield who held the club over a barrel for rent, eventually set up Murder Incorporated?

 

[roydo]

I can bet that the 60k fans that sit in it every week wont really give a flick if its been paid for or not.

Missus had her works xmas night out in the Bramley Moore pub last night, I dropped her off and picked her up, rough as arse that place.

Put the ego trip of owning your own ground aside. Most companies, in massive warehouses, shopping centres, or office blocks, dont own them. The reason football clubs seemingly have to, is either they use them to leverage debt, (familier?) or cos no one will finance a one trick pony development. (As in 1 tenant, single use, high risk)

 

[roydo]

...former Everton President and owner of Anfield who held the club over a barrel for rent, eventually set up Murder Incorporated?

ta. Know the story, not the detail.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Then I'd say that our ability to make it just doable would be premised on the nature of the industry and its fortunes. What if collective bargaining - as is likely - breaks down over broadcasting and the elite clubs fashion their own package or sell their broadcasting rights individually? We would be swimming in debt for a generation with no real means other than charging more at a stadium to service that debt and pay it down.

Mate, one part of me hopes that the whole TV thing falls in a heap and we go back to where we were a few decades ago, but it's unlikely to happen any time soon, and the elite are unlikely to break away on their own any time soon either.

Unless that happens fairly early on in the new stadium's lifetime, it's unlikely to be as catastrophic as you're predicting, inflation, even at the current low rates, will make any debt appear smaller ( in real terms ), then it is when it starts off at. If the bubble doesn't burst within ten years of us moving in, I really can't see it being a problem. If said bubble doesn't burst for fifteen years, then we should be quids in.

Admittedly these figues are based on scribblings on the back of a f@g packet, but I'm happy for you to vault me if I'm wrong.

 

[davek]

Mate, one part of me hopes that the whole TV thing falls in a heap and we go back to where we were a few decades ago, but it's unlikely to happen any time soon, and the elite are unlikely to break away on their own any time soon either.

Unless that happens fairly early on in the new stadium's lifetime, it's unlikely to be as catastrophic as you're predicting, inflation, even at the current low rates, will make any debt appear smaller ( in real terms ), then it is when it starts off at. If the bubble doesn't burst within ten years of us moving in, I really can't see it being a problem. If said bubble doesn't burst for fifteen years, then we should be quids in.

Admittedly these figues are based on scribblings on the back of a f@g packet, but I'm happy for you to vault me if I'm wrong.

It's decades the time frame we're talking about. The thing for me is that the positive prognostications are based on ALL things remaining the same: interest rates, consumer appetite for the football circus, the notion that clubs owned by oligarchs and sheiks across Europe - sometimes the same ones - wont want to break free of national jurisdictions and set up private leagues away from UEFA etc etc.

It's a massive gamble for a club with our relatively limited appeal and poor, non-diverse, revenue streams.