New Everton Stadium

[wainy]

2/ the possible impact on other authorities (as said, we have no idea what is in this development and it might impact across a number of nearby regional authorities)

Just curious on this point, what negative impact do you see on the surrounding authorities/regions? Genuinely curious btw not being confrontational.

 

[arch stanton]

Whilst people are arguing that this should be opposed because we shouldn't be 'spending' council funds on a private firm/football club, it could also be argued that we shouldn't let a potential £5-7m pa of, what could be free money, for the council to slip through their fingers because of partisan dislike of a football club.

 

[Baldynut]

Me too

On ignore so have no idea what’s been said.

 

[Gardocki]

Two:

1/ the possibility that State aid is being given to a private company

2/ the possible impact on other authorities (as said, we have no idea what is in this development and it might impact across a number of nearby regional authorities)

You say it'll be called in 'no question', yet your second reason states 'possible impact', 'we have no idea' and 'it might impact'. This is certainly not grounds to say that the application can be called in 'no question'.

Re the first point: are you sure it can be called in by the SoS over the financing proposal? I thought it was just for developments that were not in keeping with national policy?

 

[Jacko93]

It'll be called in by the sec of state.

Absolutely no question.

Why is there no question Dave? You are aware that the scheme, minus the ground has already been waved through Govt back in 2013 aren't you? what would be the catalyst for this to now be called in? You state that we don't yet know what will be on the development, assuming you are only talking about BMD, then I reckon there is a fairly good idea, its a stadium. Its not a shopping centre, so wont be taking business from the Strand or Liverpool 1. If it has conference centres etc. then there will be the local business there to support it. I don't see what makes you so confident that it will be called in. What do you base that assumption on?

 

[GwladysBlue]

I think you have a naive belief about how these huge projects *move seamlessly*. We're nearly a year into this and even the finances are still being talked about. Moshiri himself - and with good reason - has talked up the many likely obstructions to this scheme.

Moshiri has said that we will have a new stadium.

You know full when that site investigation and the drawings have been completed.

You’re choosing a stance, like always, and refusing to move from it. Once you’re challenged to back it up, you’ll disappear.

 

[RobSpurs]

I think you have a naive belief about how these huge projects *move seamlessly*. We're nearly a year into this and even the finances are still being talked about.

Not really unusual. Same happened with Wembley and this is from the mid-point of our build:
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/new...uncement-new-stadium-scheme-financing-310517/

Prior to that the works were being done with a bridging loan to keep things moving and as I understand it the loans will be looked at again after the stadium is opened.

Of course, there's public bodies involved with BMD financing which adds politics and possible objections, whereas we don't have anything like that, so getting that aspect nailed down soon will help boost confidence*. But it's not true that everything finance related has to be set in stone before a spade goes in the ground.

* Actually I wonder if this loan from LCC is fulfilling a similar purpose to our interim/bridging loan, just to get things moving whilst details are sorted with the banks for the bulk of the financing? Hadn't thought of that before.

 

[davek]

Just curious on this point, what negative impact do you see on the surrounding authorities/regions? Genuinely curious btw not being confrontational.

I say possible because I dont know for sure if there will be a development that threatens other local authorities and runs a coach and horses through a regional plan that's been agreed - no one does at this stage. That side of the scheme has all been vague, and I reckon that all surrounding authorities will be nervously casting an eye over a five billion pound venture that could suck a lot of consumption over their borders to it and eager to find out what is planned. At that stage we could see a lot of opposition. It's dependent on the mix decided upon. If there's a lot of retail, for example, how could that not impact on surrounding authorities?

 

[davek]

You say it'll be called in 'no question', yet your second reason states 'possible impact', 'we have no idea' and 'it might impact'. This is certainly not grounds to say that the application can be called in 'no question'.

Re the first point: are you sure it can be called in by the SoS over the financing proposal? I thought it was just for developments that were not in keeping with national policy?

Why is there no question Dave? You are aware that the scheme, minus the ground has already been waved through Govt back in 2013 aren't you? what would be the catalyst for this to now be called in? You state that we don't yet know what will be on the development, assuming you are only talking about BMD, then I reckon there is a fairly good idea, its a stadium. Its not a shopping centre, so wont be taking business from the Strand or Liverpool 1. If it has conference centres etc. then there will be the local business there to support it. I don't see what makes you so confident that it will be called in. What do you base that assumption on?

Ok, fair enough. "No question" was hyperbole. I just think that with a scheme this large, affecting so many people and with the centrality to it getting off the ground being stimulus from the public purse, I would be very surprised if the sec of state weren't being petitioned strongly to look at this scheme.

 

[EFC78]

No mate, other way round: you've got nothing. When the stadium scheme is green lighted then there's something to support or oppose. That's how it works.

So just oppose in your case then, because we all know (including yourself) that you will come up with some new way of painting a negative picture even if there is a green light for the Stadium to go ahead.

Of course, those of us who are currently positive may end up disappointed, but i'd hope you have the decency to admit you were unnecessarily negative if progress starts to get made and we hear more positive news soon. You've been claiming it needs to be scrapped for the last week or 2 with little evidence to back up most of your claims.

 

[kev]

Ok, fair enough. "No question" was hyperbole.

What? From you Dave?

 

[davek]

So just oppose in your case then, because we all know (including yourself) that you will come up with some new way of painting a negative picture even if there is a green light for the Stadium to go ahead.

Of course, those of us who are currently positive may end up disappointed, but i'd hope you have the decency to admit you were unnecessarily negative if progress starts to get made and we hear more positive news soon. You've been claiming it needs to be scrapped for the last week or 2 with little evidence to back up most of your claims.

You misread me. My concern is not for green or red lights. It's for the preservation of this organisation we all hold dear and central to our existence.

I applaud the vision in going for the dockland stadium. It's audacious and if it can be done without gambling with our long term security we all need to back it. But my guard has been up since the original terms of repayment were outlined and how other parties gain their security on the their investment. I think the recent change to those terms and the increase in cost of the stadium have made that even more onerous and alarming....and those costs WILL rise further still.

We have to be 100% vigilant on this. Two men are central to this scheme, Anderson and Moshiri, and I for one have no faith in either of them to do what's right for Everton FC.

 

[EFC78]

You misread me. My concern is not for green or red lights. It's for the preservation of this organisation we all hold dear and central to our existence.

I applaud the vision in going for the dockland stadium. It's audacious and if it can be done without gambling with our long term security we all need to back it. But my guard has been up since the original terms of repayment were outlined and how other parties gain their security on the their investment. I think the recent change to those terms and the increase in cost of the stadium have made that even more onerous and alarming....and those costs WILL rise further still.

We have to be 100% vigilant on this. Two men are central to this scheme, Anderson and Moshiri, and I for one have no faith in either of them to do what's right for Everton FC.

Think that is a fair response.

In the more short term, if the Council is at significant risk from the new arrangement, I guess that will be made known by the Cabinet in these upcoming meetings and JA will be overruled. But I don't think that will happen to be honest, think Anderson will have worked out how likely it is for this deal to be backed by the Cabinet and will have pitched this idea being fairly confident of it being passed. If that happens, we will then find out the terms of the Everton part of the financing in the coming months I would imagine.

 

[Thetigerblue]

To me I see the wider picture than just a new stadium. The whole area needs redevelopment which is what Peel are looking to. If this does proceed the benefit to the City would be enormous, but it will take time.

Dave talks about objections:-

Transportation, beg pardon what issues are involving that? Road, railway cannot see it myself.

Conservation, HHmmm apart from the tower, a building and the wall what is there to conserve?

Nearby authorities, oh yeah. Bootle will object my sainted aunt, they would like to see something done. Who else? Sefton? Lancs? you are having a laugh Dave.

I think that anyone arguing about objections must be visiting a different part of the Liverpool docks than me.
Don't get me wrong, if you're a photographer it's fabulous.
But for people the Dock Road is generally what many would imagine some post-apocalyptic hellhole to look like. Potholes, deserted, debris, dead rats in the gutters etc.

Complaining about regenerating the area is simply perverse.

 

[blueboy1945]

Why is there no question Dave? You are aware that the scheme, minus the ground has already been waved through Govt back in 2013 aren't you? what would be the catalyst for this to now be called in? You state that we don't yet know what will be on the development, assuming you are only talking about BMD, then I reckon there is a fairly good idea, its a stadium. Its not a shopping centre, so wont be taking business from the Strand or Liverpool 1. If it has conference centres etc. then there will be the local business there to support it. I don't see what makes you so confident that it will be called in. What do you base that assumption on?

It's not an assumption, it's a wish, desire, need, call it what you want. it's the psyche of a person who gets a vicarious thrill out of being sacked, made redundant or being thrown over for someone better.