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Newcastle Utd (and Viz)

catcherintherye said:
I'm just trying to give you a little feedback on what people think. I have no major view on it either way. I don't think you're massively arrogant, there's a few idiots the same as any club. I think you're overview is a perfectly reasonable one.

Well in truth they both did. Look we can debate the rights and wrong of the behaviour. However the haggling over £40m while risking hundreds of millions that would come from relegation is odd. I agree with the premise you don't become rich by not haggling, but is the Saudi's are really interested in a project it's very unlikely they haggle over such fees (especially with the risk of relegation). Likewise it doesn't take the length of time to complete it does. City didn't, Chelsea didn't, Moshiri didn't they just swoop in very quickly.

I think you hit on an astute point though. If they are looking at it as an investment opportunity to make money (which I suspect they are) then yes, you haggle each pound. However this is very different to having the mindset that is essentially philanthropic and will put money in irrespective of a return (as Chelsea, City and to a degree even our owners have).

What I would suggest, is that some money will be made available, but certainly not the figures that are being suggested and they will want a return on the money. It is still probably better for Newcastle than Ashley, but I would urge caution.

I think Benitez has some skills as a manager but is vastly overrated. He seems to spend lots of money on average players, then get in a huff if the money runs out. I agree with you re Bruce and the underlying measures are not good for Newcastle. Maybe you can explain this to @PM123 who seems to struggle with the concept of a side over performing how their general play has been.
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I think you're downplaying Ashley's role in all of this. He's famously difficult to deal with, consistently making demands, shifting the goalposts and generally being an arse.

I'm sure the Saudis would have preferred a quick deal a year ago, when we had Benitez, Perez, and so on. The only reason we weren't sold years ago is Mike Ashley.

FFP will stop a Man City-esque renaissance, but ambition, and progress is a seismic shift from the [Poor language removed] we've endured under Mike.

xG is a great tool, as are the metrics that reveal how well a team is actually performing. Take Newcastle as a prime example, by almost every single measure (xG, Shots, Shots on target, shots permitted, chances created, possession, etc.) we're bottom or bottom 3, yet, the league says we're 13th. Metrics can't account for luck, we had no right to get anything from our game at your place, yet two clangers in the final minutes and what should have been a comfortable and deserved win became an inexplicable draw.
 
Connor said:
Big bonce Steve Bruce is doing a remarkably better job than Rafael the Gaffer with a lesser squad, and yet, they're begging the fat man to come back? Incredible
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Ashley was right about Bruce being a safe pair of hands. Another astute business decision from him to not bow down to Rafael’s absurd wage demands to get no better a return.
 

@The Fish

Your fans' treatment of Steve Bruce has been an absolute disgrace from day 1. By all accounts he's one of the nicest guys in football, and on top of that he absolutely loves your club and city. Yet your obsessive love-in with everything Liverpool FC combined with your vicious hatred of your owner, means you've felt the need to make a martyr out of some big fat heart attack on legs who couldn't wait to bin you off for a massive pay day in China. Bruce was on a hiding to nothing from the word go, he could've had you competing for the top 4 and you'd still be slating him and calling for the fat man back. Let's not forget you played some of the worst football the Premier League has ever seen under that toad as well.

A completely despicable fanbase, and you all completely deserve the misery you've suffered in the last 20 years. Hopefully there's more on the way once this takeover falls through. Please repost to a Newcastle forum.
 
mikeh72 said:
Except it’s 5 out of 5?
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Not really though, is it? Unless you make stuff up to fit your entrenched beliefs?

Bruce isn't doing "remarkably" better than Benitez
Bruce has an additional £60m+ worth of attaking talent that he signed off on and is playing
The Newcastle United fanbase isn't beggin for Benitez back on masse, I'd say it's fairly split between those who want him back in some role and those who don't.

but Bruce does have a big head and the other parts are not credible
 
The Fish said:
Not really though, is it? Unless you make stuff up to fit your entrenched beliefs?

Bruce isn't doing "remarkably" better than Benitez
Bruce has an additional £60m+ worth of attacking talent that he signed off on and is playing
The Newcastle United fanbase isn't beggin for Benitez back on masse, I'd say it's fairly split between those who want him back in some role and those who don't.

but Bruce does have a big head and the other parts are not credible
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 

The Fish said:
I think you're downplaying Ashley's role in all of this. He's famously difficult to deal with, consistently making demands, shifting the goalposts and generally being an arse.

I'm sure the Saudis would have preferred a quick deal a year ago, when we had Benitez, Perez, and so on. The only reason we weren't sold years ago is Mike Ashley.

FFP will stop a Man City-esque renaissance, but ambition, and progress is a seismic shift from the [Poor language removed] we've endured under Mike.

xG is a great tool, as are the metrics that reveal how well a team is actually performing. Take Newcastle as a prime example, by almost every single measure (xG, Shots, Shots on target, shots permitted, chances created, possession, etc.) we're bottom or bottom 3, yet, the league says we're 13th. Metrics can't account for luck, we had no right to get anything from our game at your place, yet two clangers in the final minutes and what should have been a comfortable and deserved win became an inexplicable draw.
Click to expand...

I'm not doing, or certainly trying to do that. We know Mike Ashley is a problem. I mean I've had professional interactions with people who worked in relatively senior positions for Mike Ashley and there are many stories that emerge. He has a particular way he conducts business, shall we say.

I price that in though. It's not really even about blame, it's just about trying to gain an understanding of the different parties. Ashley in this instance has had his price. You either pay the price or you don't. If your plan is to come in, and turn Newcastle very quickly into a title challenging force, and you have hundreds of billions behind you, you really don't quibble about 40 million. It's inconsistent.

It's also inconsistent with what happened at Chelsea, Everton and Manchester City. Yes Ashley, but in all honesty, Bill Kenwright is known to be difficult to buy from (the fact it took us a decade longer than most clubs to be sold is down to him). Ken Bates was also known as a difficult man to negotiate with, and Shinawatra is a whole different level of difficulty to negotiate with. Bates and Shinawatra would have been ruder, more callous, more difficult than Ashley in all likelihood. Yet those sales went through in almost a day.

Why? Well we can suggest lots of reasons. The most obvious would be, that even if they had to pay a bit more to smooth the deal over, they saw it as small fry given they were intending to splurge massive sums in almost a philanthrophic gesture. My summation of the Newcastle case, with the evidence we have, is that it's not consistent with that outlook. It is consistent with people who probably partake in 90% of the takeovers, and want to make money from it and are squeezing the pounds.

That doesn't mean it's bad. I'm not saying you'll be as bad as under Ashley, but there is a middle point between City and Ashley and I think you sit somewhere within that. It seems like you are happy with that (as you should be) and I think thats a sensible attitude to take. I don't think people getting euphoric and massively ramping up expectations really helps the club. I would urge patience.

As for the final paragraph, I agree. I mean it's not unreasonable to say Ashleys lack of investment put you in real danger of relegation last summer didn't it?
 
mikeh72 said:
@The Fish

Your fans' treatment of Steve Bruce has been an absolute disgrace from day 1. By all accounts he's one of the nicest guys in football, and on top of that he absolutely loves your club and city. Yet your obsession with everything Liverpool combined with your vicious hatred of your owner, means you've felt the need to make a martyr out of some big fat heart attack on legs who couldn't wait to bin you off for a big pay day in China. Bruce was on a hiding to nothing from the word go, he could've had you competing for the top 4 and you'd still be slating him and calling for the fat man back. Let's not forget you played some of the worst football the Premier League has ever seen under that toad as well.

A completely despicable fanbase, and you all completely deserve the misery you've suffered in the last 20 years. Hopefully there's more on the way once this takeover falls through. Please repost to a Newcastle forum.
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And there we have it, just made up nonsense. You make yourself look like ridiculous internet troll, on your own messageboard.
 
The Fish said:
And there we have it, just made up nonsense. You make yourself look like ridiculous internet troll, on your own messageboard.
Click to expand...

Nothing made up about any of it. Especially not the torrent of unwarranted abuse Steve Bruce has had to suffer from your fans simply for being given a contract and performing at a perfectly adequate level.
 
mikeh72 said:
@The Fish

Your fans' treatment of Steve Bruce has been an absolute disgrace from day 1. By all accounts he's one of the nicest guys in football, and on top of that he absolutely loves your club and city. Yet your obsessive love-in with everything Liverpool FC combined with your vicious hatred of your owner, means you've felt the need to make a martyr out of some big fat heart attack on legs who couldn't wait to bin you off for a massive pay day in China. Bruce was on a hiding to nothing from the word go, he could've had you competing for the top 4 and you'd still be slating him and calling for the fat man back. Let's not forget you played some of the worst football the Premier League has ever seen under that toad as well.

A completely despicable fanbase, and you all completely deserve the misery you've suffered in the last 20 years. Hopefully there's more on the way once this takeover falls through. Please repost to a Newcastle forum.
Click to expand...
20 years ?

Try 45 if you value the Texaco cup
50 if you value the fairs inter city cup
65 if you if you go back to their last credible trophy the FA cup.
 

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