Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

 

Next manager discussion (poll reset 21/05/2016)

Who would you want?

  • Frank de Boer

    Votes: 302 17.0%
  • David Moyes

    Votes: 56 3.2%
  • Manuel Pellegrini

    Votes: 152 8.6%
  • Ronald Koeman

    Votes: 286 16.1%
  • Other (please state below)

    Votes: 109 6.1%
  • Unai Emery

    Votes: 870 49.0%

  • Total voters
    1,775
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Great - he's clearly not terrible - has done some good things in lower leagues and had cup runs

But other than his first year at Everton (with the legacy Moyes defensive mentality, combined with his good signings, attacking focus and general energy that the change brought) his teams performances in the premier league have been consistent - scored goals but let down defensively

We've had defensive problems this year and last - would you give him another season to address it - personally I'd say no. Take the best from what he's done - he's brought in some top players - and bring in a more experienced manager to take us forward next year
 
Great - he's clearly not terrible - has done some good things in lower leagues and had cup runs

But other than his first year at Everton (with the legacy Moyes defensive mentality, combined with his good signings, attacking focus and general energy that the change brought) his teams performances in the premier league have been consistent - scored goals but let down defensively

We've had defensive problems this year and last - would you give him another season to address it - personally I'd say no. Take the best from what he's done - he's brought in some top players - and bring in a more experienced manager to take us forward next year

But he didn't rely on Moyes' defensive mentality at all - he introduced a new and original style! He attacked from the back using Baines and - even more - Coleman, with new signings Barry and McCarthy to provide cover in defence. Lukaku, signed on loan, provided the goals.

2012/13 6 Everton 38 16 15 7 55 40 +15 63 Moyes
2013/14 5 Everton 38 21 09 8 61 39 +22 72 Martinez

And, oh yes, his team is a pleasure to watch.
 

The term winner is thrown about a bit too easy though mate. There's a pool of managers who have won stuff but it's mainly down to the resources of the club they've managed or a dollop of luck.

I think the main factor of anyone who would come in (supposing Martinez did leave) would be that the new person is in line with the owner's thoughts and values rather than having cups on their CV, although no doubt it would help.

For instance I can't ever see it happening at all but it would be silly to think that Mourinho wouldn't improve Everton short term. We have a brilliant set of u21s at the moment and he would be a poor choice for that facet.

Any profile would have many considerations to make a match. I'm just a fan so what would I know though?

Thing is though mate, a lot pof people and a lot of managers talk up the imprtance of the youth setup etc and bringing players through, but most of it is just hot air as they know the fans lap it up

Moyes for example had thi scarefully crafted image to the general footy fan as someone who brought youth through and was great with them etc - and by and large it was utter bollox and just clever PR - based on him lucking out by having Rooney at a young age and then Barkley nicely coming in at the end of his time here, but good with youth - not a chance on earth

Martinez - the young players he has been given a huge amount of credit for bringing along, Deulofeu, Lukaku, Galloway, Stones - all bought in, the only academy players he has brought in was Browning and that was out of an injury crisis prompting it, few appearances last season then banished back the udner 21's, a few this season then back the under 21's before getting injured. Barkley would have broken through no matter who the manager was - the way Rooney did - he is just that good.

But the rest of this great group of young academy players are being either released - like Ledson and a few others, or farmed out and bounced around on short term loans, brought back for a month then shipped off again, basically exactly the same way that young players are treated at the likes of Chelsea etc

Would Stones, Barkley, Lukaku and Deulofeu all get similar game time udner Mourinho - i'd say they would do actually, would the younger under 21 players have less chance of breaking through to the first team - i honestly don't know, if Martinez is given decent money to spend on the team and stays obviously he is going to be spending it on bringing players in who will make it harder for the young lads to bring in, thats just the reality of managing at this level

The teams and coaches who get reputations for bringing youth through often get that rep because they have to not because they choose too

take us for example, arguably two of our best young udner 21 players are Kenney and Dowell, Martinez tried to get in Byram a 21yo who would basically push Kenney firther away from ever getting a chance, he also brought in that Brazillian we loaned out hoping hed stay fit etc and that again would push keney firther away from ever getting a chance.

Dowell - we bought the young swizz lad who will push him further away from ever getting a chance in the team, we have also been after a established fiurst team player who would play the same position a sthe lad - meaning he would be pushed even further away from ever getting a chance to play for us.

You give Martinez say 100m to spend then he will spend it and he won't give a flying f about how it harms the chances of our academy lads developing.
 
Thing is though mate, a lot pof people and a lot of managers talk up the imprtance of the youth setup etc and bringing players through, but most of it is just hot air as they know the fans lap it up

Moyes for example had thi scarefully crafted image to the general footy fan as someone who brought youth through and was great with them etc - and by and large it was utter bollox and just clever PR - based on him lucking out by having Rooney at a young age and then Barkley nicely coming in at the end of his time here, but good with youth - not a chance on earth

Martinez - the young players he has been given a huge amount of credit for bringing along, Deulofeu, Lukaku, Galloway, Stones - all bought in, the only academy players he has brought in was Browning and that was out of an injury crisis prompting it, few appearances last season then banished back the udner 21's, a few this season then back the under 21's before getting injured. Barkley would have broken through no matter who the manager was - the way Rooney did - he is just that good.

But the rest of this great group of young academy players are being either released - like Ledson and a few others, or farmed out and bounced around on short term loans, brought back for a month then shipped off again, basically exactly the same way that young players are treated at the likes of Chelsea etc

Would Stones, Barkley, Lukaku and Deulofeu all get similar game time udner Mourinho - i'd say they would do actually, would the younger under 21 players have less chance of breaking through to the first team - i honestly don't know, if Martinez is given decent money to spend on the team and stays obviously he is going to be spending it on bringing players in who will make it harder for the young lads to bring in, thats just the reality of managing at this level

The teams and coaches who get reputations for bringing youth through often get that rep because they have to not because they choose too

take us for example, arguably two of our best young udner 21 players are Kenney and Dowell, Martinez tried to get in Byram a 21yo who would basically push Kenney firther away from ever getting a chance, he also brought in that Brazillian we loaned out hoping hed stay fit etc and that again would push keney firther away from ever getting a chance.

Dowell - we bought the young swizz lad who will push him further away from ever getting a chance in the team, we have also been after a established fiurst team player who would play the same position a sthe lad - meaning he would be pushed even further away from ever getting a chance to play for us.

You give Martinez say 100m to spend then he will spend it and he won't give a flying f about how it harms the chances of our academy lads developing.
How are Ledson and co being released mate?
 
But he didn't rely on Moyes' defensive mentality at all - he introduced a new and original style! He attacked from the back using Baines and - even more - Coleman, with new signings Barry and McCarthy to provide cover in defence. Lukaku, signed on loan, provided the goals.

2012/13 6 Everton 38 16 15 7 55 40 +15 63 Moyes
2013/14 5 Everton 38 21 09 8 61 39 +22 72 Martinez

And, oh yes, his team is a pleasure to watch.

Interesting point re not relying on the Moyes defensive mentality in RM's first season. It seemed in that season that we were fusing the best of both approaches. It stands to reason that the players would retain aspects of the Moyes mentality for a period. If I switch companies normally I find I go in with the mindset I've developed at the old company, and then gradually it changes a bit, purely through being immersed in a new environment - but generally that takes a few months

Whatever the explanation the defending this season and last hasn't been what it was in the Moyes years, or what it needs to be to challenge in the premier league. It's an obvious concern and difficult to see how we can challenge for the top 4 without addressing it. I think RM even said once that it's not really in his philosophy
 

Ah fair enough.

My ,main point was though, i honestly don't know if Mourinhos reputation for not bringing through young players is worse than any other manager who has been at those type and stature of clubs, it's easy to look at Lukaku and De Bruyne etc as examples, but then look at the fact that Lukaku wanted to be a starter and he could go out and buy a peak Costa instead, Hazrad was ahead of De Bruyne and De Bruyne wanted to be starting - your dealing with clubs that have 30-40m rated players ahead of the younger lads at those squads and at teams that they need the right here right now developed players already.

Martinez for example has benched Stones and Deulofeu both 21yo's recently and brought in Mori and Lennon who are 25 and 29, maybe because pressure was mounting to get results and staying with younger players a bit out of form wasn't in the managers opinion worth it at this point.

Sounds a simplistic thing to say, but playing younger players is easier when the pressure isn't as high at a club, Mourinho is always at the sharp end of that scale where every result matters and not winning the league or getting the tail end of the CL is deemed a dissapointing season.

Christ look at how many of this board slated Lukaku last season for various things and imagine the pressure at Chelsea on him
 
Pellegrini all day long for me!
Proven in the prem and has some clout to get some top players at our club

I like De Boer but dutch football isnt that strong so anything less than winning the league... bit like celtic and we don't want another Walter smith do we!!!!
 
Pellegrini is an interesting shout. The landscape has changed - means a different outlook. From an owner with net worth c.£30m to an investor coming in with £1bn+. We've been on the verge of the top 4 - now have the resources to take an already high potential team to the next level. Just need the proven, top quality manager to do it. I wonder if Jose is considering it
 
Thing is though mate, a lot pof people and a lot of managers talk up the imprtance of the youth setup etc and bringing players through, but most of it is just hot air as they know the fans lap it up

Moyes for example had thi scarefully crafted image to the general footy fan as someone who brought youth through and was great with them etc - and by and large it was utter bollox and just clever PR - based on him lucking out by having Rooney at a young age and then Barkley nicely coming in at the end of his time here, but good with youth - not a chance on earth

Martinez - the young players he has been given a huge amount of credit for bringing along, Deulofeu, Lukaku, Galloway, Stones - all bought in, the only academy players he has brought in was Browning and that was out of an injury crisis prompting it, few appearances last season then banished back the udner 21's, a few this season then back the under 21's before getting injured. Barkley would have broken through no matter who the manager was - the way Rooney did - he is just that good.

But the rest of this great group of young academy players are being either released - like Ledson and a few others, or farmed out and bounced around on short term loans, brought back for a month then shipped off again, basically exactly the same way that young players are treated at the likes of Chelsea etc

Would Stones, Barkley, Lukaku and Deulofeu all get similar game time udner Mourinho - i'd say they would do actually, would the younger under 21 players have less chance of breaking through to the first team - i honestly don't know, if Martinez is given decent money to spend on the team and stays obviously he is going to be spending it on bringing players in who will make it harder for the young lads to bring in, thats just the reality of managing at this level

The teams and coaches who get reputations for bringing youth through often get that rep because they have to not because they choose too

take us for example, arguably two of our best young udner 21 players are Kenney and Dowell, Martinez tried to get in Byram a 21yo who would basically push Kenney firther away from ever getting a chance, he also brought in that Brazillian we loaned out hoping hed stay fit etc and that again would push keney firther away from ever getting a chance.

Dowell - we bought the young swizz lad who will push him further away from ever getting a chance in the team, we have also been after a established fiurst team player who would play the same position a sthe lad - meaning he would be pushed even further away from ever getting a chance to play for us.

You give Martinez say 100m to spend then he will spend it and he won't give a flying f about how it harms the chances of our academy lads developing.


Spot on RM has not really given our Academy players a look in really apart from Galloway who has now disappeared.
 
Interesting point re not relying on the Moyes defensive mentality in RM's first season. It seemed in that season that we were fusing the best of both approaches. It stands to reason that the players would retain aspects of the Moyes mentality for a period. If I switch companies normally I find I go in with the mindset I've developed at the old company, and then gradually it changes a bit, purely through being immersed in a new environment - but generally that takes a few months

Whatever the explanation the defending this season and last hasn't been what it was in the Moyes years, or what it needs to be to challenge in the premier league. It's an obvious concern and difficult to see how we can challenge for the top 4 without addressing it. I think RM even said once that it's not really in his philosophy

The goals - for and against - weren't very different in 2004/05 - when Everton did finish in the top 4 - and last season.

2004/05 04 Everton 38 18 07 13 45 46 −01 61 Moyes - a defensive devotee
2014/15 11 Everton 38 12 11 15 48 50 −02 47 Martinez - a defensive disaster

You could say that it was the number of draws that held us back in the league table last season.

And it is holding us back this season too, even though Roberto rarely plays for a draw. I wonder if we can match the 15 draws in Moyes' last season.

2012/13 06 Everton 38 16 15 07 55 40 +15 63 Moyes
2015/16 12 Everton 28 09 11 08 51 39 +12 38
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome to GrandOldTeam

Get involved. Registration is simple and free.

Back
Top