Next manager discussion (poll reset 21/05/2016)

[larbert toffee]

For the record hypothetically would fancy Howe although I realise it would be a punt, but young,ambitious,intelligent, has brought a small provisional club to the Premiership and by the looks of may well do enough to keep them there for another season.

Loved Jose first time round at Chelsea but he couldn't cope when things got tough and never seems to last too long at clubs even when enjoying success.Don't honestly think he would be interested in us at the moment either.

 

[davek]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35793540

Here's one of your 'hypotheticals'...walking out of his club after a few defeats.

Lol.

 

[BlueToff]

He's not that good though either...

And that doesn't make him kak.

I'm on the fence in regards Martinez but he has all the ability to be an extremely good manager.

His issue is if he refuses to accept his mistakes and rectify them. This season, IMO, he has done that quite a few times, but has habits of slipping back into making the same mistakes every few games which of course is a problem.

 

[BlueToff]

For the record hypothetically would fancy Howe although I realise it would be a punt, but young,ambitious,intelligent, has brought a small provisional club to the Premiership and by the looks of may well do enough to keep them there for another season.

Loved Jose first time round at Chelsea but he couldn't cope when things got tough and never seems to last too long at clubs even when enjoying success.Don't honestly think he would be interested in us at the moment either.

If we get rid of RM then we need to stop going for this policy of 'young' managers.

Get somebody who has been and done it at a club the size of or bigger than Everton, and has the experience of doing so

 

[bluestevon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35793540

Here's one of your 'hypotheticals'...walking out of his club after a few defeats.

Lol.

Dave if you are going to post so much in the hypothetical replacement thread why not suggest a replacement then, it's the entire point of the thread isn't it?, If you just want to be pro Martinez then their is a few other threads to be that in, why feel the need to try to derail any thread that dares to suggest their is life at Everton after Martinez?

Serious question btw, all you do in this thread is suggest why Martinez should stay and criticise anybody who suggests an alternative, by all means say why you don't think someone like Mourinho or karanka or Howe or whoever should be the next manager - but in the spirit of the thread shouldn't you be doing so from the basis that Martinez leaves?

 

[bluestevon]

And that doesn't make him kak.

I'm on the fence in regards Martinez but he has all the ability to be an extremely good manager.

His issue is if he refuses to accept his mistakes and rectify them. This season, IMO, he has done that quite a few times, but has habits of slipping back into making the same mistakes every few games which of course is a problem.

does he though that is the thing that gets me, It's like saying a boxer with a glass jaw has all the ability to be a top boxer - if only he could fix his glass jaw - which he can't obviously, can't remember any manager who for 7 years running has had the same flaw and such a big one turning it around and fixing it, it's just fundamentally who he is as a manager, like a player without pace or technique you can slightly improve it, but your never going to change it too much. Managers have their styles and their strengths and flaws, and Martinez is what he is, won't ever change it, won't ever really improve it enough to make a major difference...

We also talk about luck and so has the Manager, analyse some of the games we let slip under the radar though, sunderland 6-2 win seems great on the surface, then we look and see we threw away a two nil lead, before we scored they battered us and hit the woodwork twice, games like that could be argued we got lucky and they easily could have turned into another Bournmoth or Stoke game. Spurs we got lucky in the fact that Howard actually played a blinder - he plays an average game of his standar and we get drilled 2 or 3-0 for example, City in the league - should have had a nailed on pen and that great defensvie display ends in a 1 or 2 nil loss almost certainly, fine margins can go both ways,

 

[BlueToff]

does he though that is the thing that gets me, It's like saying a boxer with a glass jaw has all the ability to be a top boxer - if only he could fix his glass jaw - which he can't obviously, can't remember any manager who for 7 years running has had the same flaw and such a big one turning it around and fixing it, it's just fundamentally who he is as a manager, like a player without pace or technique you can slightly improve it, but your never going to change it too much. Managers have their styles and their strengths and flaws, and Martinez is what he is, won't ever change it, won't ever really improve it enough to make a major difference...

We also talk about luck and so has the Manager, analyse some of the games we let slip under the radar though, sunderland 6-2 win seems great on the surface, then we look and see we threw away a two nil lead, before we scored they battered us and hit the woodwork twice, games like that could be argued we got lucky and they easily could have turned into another Bournmoth or Stoke game. Spurs we got lucky in the fact that Howard actually played a blinder - he plays an average game of his standar and we get drilled 2 or 3-0 for example, City in the league - should have had a nailed on pen and that great defensvie display ends in a 1 or 2 nil loss almost certainly, fine margins can go both ways,

I'd agree with your top paragraph mate 100% if not for the fact that RM has shown he does know how to be more defensively solid, or at least adapt his game to suit.

Heck, a perfect example would be the first 75 minutes the other day... then the last 15 minutes showed everything wrong with him. Since the turn of the year in general we've gone for an outlook that's been garnered to be a bit more solid and the result/clean sheets have picked up.

Yes there's luck mate and like you said we've had our fair share. What I would say however, is that a lot of our bad luck this term has come at points that have clearly effected the result and have had a huge impact on the team/game. Chelsea, for example, that costs us two points. You point to the City penalty but think how many stonewallers we've had turned down this season.... or the one against Stoke which never should have been one etc. They balance themselves out (pens) - but dodgy offsides in overtime of stoppage time do not, and neither does a ball clearly out of play in a semi-final second-leg which we had held our own in despite riding our luck...

 

[Neiziro]

Karanka's future at Boro is in doubt according to Sky

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

It's like saying a boxer with a glass jaw has all the ability to be a top boxer - if only he could fix his glass jaw

Good analogy. Reminiscent of Herol 'bomber' Graham; acknowledged by just about everyone as someone who could outbox anyone even on his offdays, but as soon as one landed on his chin he was completely bollo'ed and it was only a matter of time before he hit the canvas; putting his aspirations back another year or more.

Just that bit shy of paydirt & glory.

 

[davek]

Same thing she was saying about Dowell he was saying about Ledson mate, openly stating he would have brought him into the team if it wasn't for his England call up at the end of the other season.

Okay so he was giving young players their chances was he mate
2nd round game against Barnsley
Robles, Pennington, Stones, Jagielka, Oviedo, Besic, Cleverley, McGeady, , Naismith, Mirallas, Lukaku brought on Deulofeu, Barkley, McCarthy - Only young player he gave a chance to was Pennington and he was hauled off at half time - also coleman was injured kind of casting doubt if he'd have played any academy player if he was fit.

next round against Reading
Robles, Stones, Jagielka, Funes Mori, Lennon, Osman, Barkley, McCarthy, Deulofeu, Koné, Lukaku brought on Galloway and Barry - so like to explain where the youngster used in this game is mate?

Against Norwich
Robles, Browning, Stones, Funes Mori, Oviedo, Mirallas, Gibson, McCarthy, Osman, Kone, Lukaku, brought on Barkley, Naismith, Deulofeu - so Browning got a game at rb for this as the only young polayer really - again though Coleman was injured and have to wonder if Browning would ever have been near the first team starting otherwise

QF against Boro
Robles, Coleman, Stones, Funes Mori, Galloway, Cleverley, Barry, Deulofeu, Barkley, Osman, Lukaku, brought on Baines, Naismith and Mirallas.
So yet again absolutely no truth in him giving young untried players a shot

So their we have the first 4 rounds of the LC mate - you said we saw youngsters used etc, in the 4 games we saw Browning get a game and Pennington get a half and that is it, both at rb and both when Coleman was injured and we had the injury crisis at lb, so 44 starting positions over those 4 games and 12 potential substitute chances to see our Bobby show his commitment to bringing through young academy players, we got 62 minutes of Browning before he was subbed off and we got 45 minutes of Pennington before he was subbed off. Sorry if this destroys your myth regarding Martinez blooding our academy players.

players 18-20 should stay within the fold at the club and get good experience - is that a sneaky way of saying - shouldnt get any game time and should be loaned out repeatedly mate? Hows that any different to what Chelsea, City etc all do with their young players?

This season he's played Pennington, Browning, Galloway - two 21 year olds and a 19 year old (and a brief run out for Rodriguez). But you also have to understand and appreciate that they come into a team that's young in any case. Because they're established now, it doesn't make it any less the case that Martinez is determined to see a younger team and encourage through young players and buy them untested by the PL.

Robles, Stones, Besic, Mori, Barkley, Lukaku, McCarthy, Deulofeu - all established first teamers and none older than 25. We could put out a strong team of under 25 year olds with starting experience - there'd be no chance of that under any Mourinho regime.

 

[bluestevon]

Good analogy. Reminiscent of Herol 'bomber' Graham; acknowledged by just about everyone as someone who could outbox anyone even on his offdays, but as soon as one landed on his chin he was completely bollo'ed and it was only a matter of time before he hit the canvas; putting his aspirations back another year or more.

Just that bit shy of paydirt & glory.

Graham actually had a very god chin though mate, problem was he tactically cocked up in his biggest fights, the one time he was at his peak his chin let him down was against Jackson - arguably one of the best pound for pound punchers in the game and that punch would have ko'd anyone that night. (Big Bomber fan here btw ) - after that his durability was nevere the same again

My analogy would be the likes of Terry Norris, constantly lauded and some great wins then just when the hype was getting massive he'd get himself knocked out by some bang average fighter, then go and get himself near the top again and then bang same thing every time, altered his style and everythign for some fights but never could sustain the discipline needed to protect that jaw, very like Martinez that is.

 

[D410]

Jose, the peoples poll choice of GOT.

 

[davek]

Dave if you are going to post so much in the hypothetical replacement thread why not suggest a replacement then, it's the entire point of the thread isn't it?, If you just want to be pro Martinez then their is a few other threads to be that in, why feel the need to try to derail any thread that dares to suggest their is life at Everton after Martinez?

Serious question btw, all you do in this thread is suggest why Martinez should stay and criticise anybody who suggests an alternative, by all means say why you don't think someone like Mourinho or karanka or Howe or whoever should be the next manager - but in the spirit of the thread shouldn't you be doing so from the basis that Martinez leaves?

Karanka is thinking of walking out of a club two and a half months from the season's end - that's flaky. I'd say that's a legitimate concern to have about a 'contender for the Everton manager's job'...in the event that there arises a need for one.

That's not derailment, that's critique.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Graham actually had a very god chin though mate, problem was he tactically cocked up in his biggest fights, the one time he was at his peak his chin let him down was against Jackson - arguably one of the best pound for pound punchers in the game and that punch would have ko'd anyone that night. (Big Bomber fan here btw ) - after that his durability was nevere the same again

Deffo right on the tactical balls-ups. I should've mentioned that meself, especially against kalombay(?)

Just that the Jackson KO is the extreme example of being in total control on the way to stopping a big-hitter, and letting something as simple as a change of feet put you on yer arse & a few years backwards.

 

[bluestevon]

This season he's played Pennington, Browning, Galloway - two 21 year olds and a 19 year old (and a brief run out for Rodriguez). But you also have to understand and appreciate that they come into a team that's young in any case. Because they're established now, it doesn't make it any less the case that Martinez is determined to see a younger team and encourage through young players and buy them untested by the PL.

Robles, Stones, Besic, Mori, Barkley, Lukaku, McCarthy, Deulofeu - all established first teamers and none older than 25. We could put out a strong team of under 25 year olds with starting experience - there'd be no chance of that under any Mourinho regime.

Galloway was bought last season after having played for MK Dons and started for us in the league last season mate, so no he isn't an academy player in the slightest, and if you really think he'd have played at all besides for a massive injury crisis at the left back spot then your kidding yourself.

Check the age of some of the players Mourinho has used mate, his first season at Chelsea as a good an example as any

Cech - 22, Ferreira -25, Johnson -20, Joe Cole - 22, Bridge - 23, Terry - 23, Huth - 20, Robben -20. Tiago - 23.