Next manager discussion (poll reset 21/05/2016)

[AaronTheBlue]

Pellegrini doesn't convince me tbh why has he failed quite badly when trying to step up a level ala Madrid and city. His last best tenure was years ago at villareal.

 

[jinkyali]

Pellegrini doesn't convince me tbh why has he failed quite badly when trying to step up a level ala Madrid and city. His last best tenure was years ago at villareal.

How has he failed at City?
Didn't he get a record points total at Madrid?

 

[catcherintherye]

Don't get the De Boer shouts.

We can't draw any worthwhile conclusions from a manager who has only managed an Ajax side in the Eredivisie.

You make a good point. I voted Mourinho, but of the realistic options it's De Boer all day long for me. So it seems only fair to out a bit of a defence.

1) Age: He is for me still a good age to join us. I like the idea of Everton having longer term managers. He still has a number of good years at the top, but is also quite experienced.

2) Team Development: I think, probably more than any of his competitors he has shown the ability to develop young players. He worked beforehand at the Ajax academy with Vertongen, Eriksen etc and moved them up to the first team. This is the sort of manager I've wanted for Everton, one who can continue to improve our young side, make astute signings and develop young players. In my view it is the best way for us to compete at the top end.
I also think where we are as a squad, (I know some will leave) but Stones, Lukaku, Barkley, Deulofeu, Besic, Galloway would all benefit from having a manager who can develop young talent. I think he fits that bill perfectly.

3) Trophies: As a player and a manager he has won numerous trophies. I think he can get is over the line for trophies as it won't be a huge mental block for him. He has won 4 Dutch leagues in a row, he may well add his 5th in 6 seasons. People will rightly say he has more money than others, but Ajax had gone 6/7 years without winning the league when he took over. Alongside that, take his nearest competitor Pellegrini, he had a similarly big budget compared to his challengers at Real Madrid and City. He has won 1 league in 4 seasons and that was dubiously handed to him that storming over the line.

I know people quote his "record points total" but in the end that means nothing, people remember trophies. Martinez got our record points. In the end it means nothing, trophies are everything. De Boer has shown he can handle the expectation of being a favourite and deliver, more so than Pellegrini has done who has achieved it only 1 season in 4.

4) Backroom staff/identity. You can't help but be moved by his Ajax backroom staff. I think we will struggle to bring them all over as I think their loyalty will be to Ajax not De Boer. However even if we got 1 or 2 out of Overmars, De Boer, Stam, Van Der Saar etc. I think that would be a massive coup for us and would benefit our players. I also like the idea getting ex players involved, giving the club a clear identityand I think with possibly Unsworth/Sheedy with Ferguson we might be able to build on it in a similar way.

5) (A Negative) Lack of exposure: He has only managed in the Dutch league. It is a weak league (but in many ways a good league for us, as it's a league that focusses on young players which is where we are as a squad). Ultimately we wouldn't be able to attract a manager who has won 4 consecutive titles in a better league. His Ajax teams have also had some ok results in Europe, including beating Manchester City (maybe under Pellegrini?).

Overall I would love us to find our Pochetino. He seems the closest to that. I don't think Pellegrini is an inferior manager, but I think De Boer is a much better fit for our squad and the money we have to spend.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Pellegrini doesn't convince me tbh why has he failed quite badly when trying to step up a level ala Madrid and city. His last best tenure was years ago at villareal.

Domestic double in 13/14 with City. League cup again this season and in semi final of CL. How exactly has he failed?

 

[AaronTheBlue]

How has he failed at City?
Didn't he get a record points total at Madrid?

Got record points yes but was knocked out of every cup he was in by a lot worse teams

If he was any good with the money city have had he would be blitzing the league right now. And generally city play way below expectations with him in charge

 

[catcherintherye]

How has he failed at City?
Didn't he get a record points total at Madrid?

I think we need to stop banging on about "record points total". He didn't win the league. Football is about winning trophies not about points hauls. All that shows for me is that the Spanish league was weaker that season, but he remained the 2nd best team in a 2 horse race.

It would be a little harsh to say he's failed at City but also hard to say he's succeeded. He's spent more money than anyone else and only got 1 league to show for it. He may well end up 4th this season which would be poor. I worry as they look very soft centred to me under him. The defence has never looked right and all of his best players are players he inherited.

He didn't fail at City but it hasn't been a success. 1 League in 3 season is not great, especially when you consider how they won the league that season (all their rivals collapsing.)

 

[royalblue66]

You make a good point. I voted Mourinho, but of the realistic options it's De Boer all day long for me. So it seems only fair to out a bit of a defence.

1) Age: He is for me still a good age to join us. I like the idea of Everton having longer term managers. He still has a number of good years at the top, but is also quite experienced.

2) Team Development: I think, probably more than any of his competitors he has shown the ability to develop young players. He worked beforehand at the Ajax academy with Vertongen, Eriksen etc and moved them up to the first team. This is the sort of manager I've wanted for Everton, one who can continue to improve our young side, make astute signings and develop young players. In my view it is the best way for us to compete at the top end.
I also think where we are as a squad, (I know some will leave) but Stones, Lukaku, Barkley, Deulofeu, Besic, Galloway would all benefit from having a manager who can develop young talent. I think he fits that bill perfectly.

3) Trophies: As a player and a manager he has won numerous trophies. I think he can get is over the line for trophies as it won't be a huge mental block for him. He has won 4 Dutch leagues in a row, he may well add his 5th in 6 seasons. People will rightly say he has more money than others, but Ajax had gone 6/7 years without winning the league when he took over. Alongside that, take his nearest competitor Pellegrini, he had a similarly big budget compared to his challengers at Real Madrid and City. He has won 1 league in 4 seasons and that was dubiously handed to him that storming over the line.

I know people quote his "record points total" but in the end that means nothing, people remember trophies. Martinez got our record points. In the end it means nothing, trophies are everything. De Boer has shown he can handle the expectation of being a favourite and deliver, more so than Pellegrini has done who has achieved it only 1 season in 4.

4) Backroom staff/identity. You can't help but be moved by his Ajax backroom staff. I think we will struggle to bring them all over as I think their loyalty will be to Ajax not De Boer. However even if we got 1 or 2 out of Overmars, De Boer, Stam, Van Der Saar etc. I think that would be a massive coup for us and would benefit our players. I also like the idea getting ex players involved, giving the club a clear identityand I think with possibly Unsworth/Sheedy with Ferguson we might be able to build on it in a similar way.

5) (A Negative) Lack of exposure: He has only managed in the Dutch league. It is a weak league (but in many ways a good league for us, as it's a league that focusses on young players which is where we are as a squad). Ultimately we wouldn't be able to attract a manager who has won 4 consecutive titles in a better league. His Ajax teams have also had some ok results in Europe, including beating Manchester City (maybe under Pellegrini?).

Overall I would love us to find our Pochetino. He seems the closest to that. I don't think Pellegrini is an inferior manager, but I think De Boer is a much better fit for our squad and the money we have to spend.

Seems like a million miles away from the likes of Hughes & Moyes.

 

[Jags..class]

How has he failed at City?
Didn't he get a record points total at Madrid?

Can't believe he thinks he a failure

 

[AaronTheBlue]

Domestic double in 13/14 with City. League cup again this season and in semi final of CL. How exactly has he failed?

That isn't exactly impressive with the squad he has though and money they've spent, they're hardly doing amazingly in the league.

I'm just not convinced he's right for us

 

[catcherintherye]

Domestic double in 13/14 with City. League cup again this season and in semi final of CL. How exactly has he failed?

1 league in 3 seasons with the most money to spend. Finishing 4th this season. 1 Semi final of a champions league in 3 seasons (alongside a group stage exit?) is not a record of success for me. I don't think it's a failure either. You have people knocking De Boer winning 4 leagues in a row or 5 leagues out of 6 yet this guys record is significantly inferior to that (albeit in a stronger league).

 

[catcherintherye]

That isn't exactly impressive with the squad he has though and money they've spent, they're hardly doing amazingly in the league.

I'm just not convinced he's right for us

I think failure is a tad harsh but you are correct. For what he has spent, to win 1 league and get to the last 4 of the champions league once is not success.

 

[AaronTheBlue]

Can't believe he thinks he a failure

I sont think he is a failure as a manager at all I just dont think he has done anything all that impressive recently with what he has had access to. And I just don't personally think he'd be a good fit here.

More than happy to be proven wrong and I'd have him in a heart beat over the likes of howe / keeping martinez

 

[sharkey1001]

i

You make a good point. I voted Mourinho, but of the realistic options it's De Boer all day long for me. So it seems only fair to out a bit of a defence.

1) Age: He is for me still a good age to join us. I like the idea of Everton having longer term managers. He still has a number of good years at the top, but is also quite experienced.

2) Team Development: I think, probably more than any of his competitors he has shown the ability to develop young players. He worked beforehand at the Ajax academy with Vertongen, Eriksen etc and moved them up to the first team. This is the sort of manager I've wanted for Everton, one who can continue to improve our young side, make astute signings and develop young players. In my view it is the best way for us to compete at the top end.
I also think where we are as a squad, (I know some will leave) but Stones, Lukaku, Barkley, Deulofeu, Besic, Galloway would all benefit from having a manager who can develop young talent. I think he fits that bill perfectly.

3) Trophies: As a player and a manager he has won numerous trophies. I think he can get is over the line for trophies as it won't be a huge mental block for him. He has won 4 Dutch leagues in a row, he may well add his 5th in 6 seasons. People will rightly say he has more money than others, but Ajax had gone 6/7 years without winning the league when he took over. Alongside that, take his nearest competitor Pellegrini, he had a similarly big budget compared to his challengers at Real Madrid and City. He has won 1 league in 4 seasons and that was dubiously handed to him that storming over the line.

I know people quote his "record points total" but in the end that means nothing, people remember trophies. Martinez got our record points. In the end it means nothing, trophies are everything. De Boer has shown he can handle the expectation of being a favourite and deliver, more so than Pellegrini has done who has achieved it only 1 season in 4.

4) Backroom staff/identity. You can't help but be moved by his Ajax backroom staff. I think we will struggle to bring them all over as I think their loyalty will be to Ajax not De Boer. However even if we got 1 or 2 out of Overmars, De Boer, Stam, Van Der Saar etc. I think that would be a massive coup for us and would benefit our players. I also like the idea getting ex players involved, giving the club a clear identityand I think with possibly Unsworth/Sheedy with Ferguson we might be able to build on it in a similar way.

5) (A Negative) Lack of exposure: He has only managed in the Dutch league. It is a weak league (but in many ways a good league for us, as it's a league that focusses on young players which is where we are as a squad). Ultimately we wouldn't be able to attract a manager who has won 4 consecutive titles in a better league. His Ajax teams have also had some ok results in Europe, including beating Manchester City (maybe under Pellegrini?).

Overall I would love us to find our Pochetino. He seems the closest to that. I don't think Pellegrini is an inferior manager, but I think De Boer is a much better fit for our squad and the money we have to spend.

I like the de Boer shouts. However can we get him in a few years. Get Jose in to manage us for 3 years, win us the league and then sack us off? I want some short-term success alá Chelsea and City with their takeovers.

 

[catcherintherye]

Seems like a million miles away from the likes of Hughes & Moyes.

I paint a positive picture of De Boer as I want him and have done for a while. I think the counter point is that Moyes and Hughes have done it in England and De Boer hasn't. I think it's time to take a risk though. I am not saying De Boer is a better manager than a lot being suggested, but he just seems a good fit. I don't think we'd be bottling as many big games with him in charge.

 

[jinkyali]

I think failure is a tad harsh but you are correct. For what he has spent, to win 1 league and get to the last 4 of the champions league once is not success.

Who has done better than him in the last few years in England?

He's bettered Jose, LVG , Wenger