Next manager discussion (poll reset 21/05/2016)

[eternal_defiance]

Just a thought, but if Mancini leaves Inter, Mourinho, who has stated his time at Inter was the most special, could go back there imo

 

[everton2004]

I'd much rather we were hitting a ceiling than scraping along the deck like a chavved up Corsa. Last time we hit a ceiling was Bobby's first season - that was ever such a long time ago.

 

[blueblue]

Lets go down the XIs.

1. Adrian - on par with Joel.
2. Byram - Not seen enough of to form an opinion.
3. Cresswell - on current form, better than Baines.
4. Reid - on current form, better than Stones.
5. Ogbonna - Jagielka is better.
6. Noble - On par with Barry.
7. Kouyate - Better than McCarthy.
8. Payet - Better than Barkley.
9. Carroll - Lukaku is better.
10. Lanzini - Better than Lennon.
11. Antonio - Better than Cleverley.

Yet, we played them off the park at Goodison, had a missed penalty and played most of the game with ten men.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Dont pull me back in.... jib it - who am i kidding i was never out.

Its Mourinho, defo.

 

[ar92]

Whilst Koeman isn't necessarily a bad manager as such, I don't feel that he would be the right appointment for Everton. I think we need a winner, for too long we've settled for second best and been happy to be the underdogs.

We need a manager who can come in and change the whole mentality of the club, which is the main reason I want Jose or another manager who is capable of doing that. Whilst there is concerns about Pellegrini being stuck in his ways (same as the current 'manager'), he has a history of winning titles and managing at the highest level. As a manager, Koeman has won the Eredivisie and the Copa Del Rey but nothing else worth mentioning.

I don't see Koeman coming in and inspiring our players to believe we can beat anyone, I don't see Koeman having the ability to persuade our best players to stay.

Despite what me or anyone else thinks, If he did end up becoming our new manager, backed with some decent funds, I'm pretty sure we would all get behind him but I'm not sure he would bring the ambition, hope and positivity back to the fanbase which Martinez has deprived us of.

 

[GlosBlue]

What is this 'ceiling' that everyone refers to? The same one that Wenger, Pellegrini, Hiddink etc have hit? Who is to say how well Koeman will do? It may be that he is the perfect fit and smashes it!

This is from a massive pessimist!

 

[chopper6]

Who'd have predicted what Ranieri has done at Leicester??? I'm not saying that's going to happen again but I guarantee 9/10 fans would be moaning if we would of brought in Ranieri (prior to Leicester success)

None of us are educated enough within the game to know how good Koeman will be. You can't just look at history for everything with Ranieri a perfect example of this

 

[zandvoort blue]

I get what you are saying re De Boer but at Everton if its true we have a new found wealth, its going to be a different kettle of fish completely for De Boer. Will he be able to keep the top stars happy? Will he be able to go out and spend big money on decent players rather than penny pinching and rebuilding a squad?

I think people under estimate how big a job it is going to be at Everton this season and going forward. There is alot to sort out on the playing side and getting a right balance.

It would be great to get a Jose etc but we need to be realistic, even with 'our' new found wealth its going to take a couple of years imo for prospective top managers to see this and realise we are a team going places that they will want to be a part of, at the moment we are mid table, no european football with a few decent players.

I think the thing that concerns me is how any replacement manager is going to motivate the under-performing existing 'stars' we have got in the team, and do a rebuild based on older players retiring or 'stars' being sold, from the market or academy.

For the current lot, is all that sulking and gashness just due to Martinez? And can it be trained out fast in preseason by a new regime's improved tactics, fitness and a couple of new faces - be that by Jose, de Boer, Koeman or other. I think for the majority of current players, yes it can, by whomever.

De Boer does well where he can impose a playing philosophy and (like at Ajax) promote from the academy fast, while bringing in a couple of more established players. So turning us around might be a bit of a longer exercise (requiring perhaps a couple of season's patience, which none of us seem to have in spades these days, especially if we hold him to davek's daft 1st year benchmarking).

Koeman has more experience of rebuilds using more experienced players, rather than those emerging from Academy but also looks to develop from here too. I think he could impose a more effective regime faster than de Boer, for example.

We all know what Jose is about: a serious, fast cheque book exercise over this summer, and expectations of immediate success using established players. Can he get the fire back in the bellies of our current lot? He is more likely to persuade Stones, Rom (and perhaps even Ross) to stay but is likely to be more critical of them in the mid term too. Are they / we ready for that? He's perhaps most likely to regalvanize and be successful in the short term but potentially more fractious in the mid/long term. What about the Academy, etc? Will he get off as soon as ManU or other CL club come knocking at the end of the first season, especially if its been a bumpy one without CL qualification? What about his relationship with the Chairman (Moshiri) - it was the Russian and the players calling the shots at Chelsea; it'll be him calling them here and moaning if he's not getting what he wants. Are we ready for that?

I think there are more questions about Jose in the mid/long and de Boer's chances in the short/long term than Koeman, so that's why I think Koeman may be an astute choice for us, given where we are with the squad, especially if we are to set off on a fairly steep trajectory back into the European places (1st year target?).

 

[Groucho]

Hi. Your post implies Bilic claimed injury for Everton and played for Croatia at the same time. Bilic never turned out for Croatia while 'injured' for Everton. After the 1998 World Cup, he missed every Croatia Euro 2000 qualifier while injured for Everton. He turned out for Croatia a few times and Hadjuk Split a few times after leaving Everton. But he basically retired through injury after leaving Everton
.
He had a contract of £27k a week and Everton were trying to push him out. Everton paid him £1m to cut his contract short, and saved money by doing this.

I do not understand hating a player for being injured. Or for receiving money while injured. It's the norm.

Oh right fair enough.

Didn't realise that was the case.

 

[Groucho]

Let's just stick with gentleman Martinez then, i'm sorry but i don't care who or what our future manager is or what he's done. As long as he brings success then it's all good.

Nah mate, I want a change of manager. Not really sure why you'd think I wanted to stick with him.

 

[catcherintherye]

Just to clarify, for reasons I am not going into Koeman is the most likely replacement. Jose is not out of the frame, but as a club we cannot put all our "eggs" in the "Jose basket" for obvious reasons.

Armed with a serious amount of cash, and given the task of rebuilding - let's be realistic, that's the task any incoming manager faces, the Martinez project is dead and we're likely to lose at least one of our "star" players in Lukaku, perhaps Stones as well - albeit receiving significant fees for both, Koeman is a pretty decent choice, and one who has the potential if not yet, the proven ability to become a winner.

I'm pretty certain that a revamped Everton squad, under Koeman would have be highly competitive in this year's PL, so why not in next year also?

There's also the very real prospect of a Director of Football being appointed, integrating all of the junior levels with the senior side - an extremely valuable asset if this proves to be the case.

Thanks for the information mate. I am underwhelmed by Koeman but I do think that is in part due to Mourinho being available which is a unique situation. Without that I do think the Koeman appointment becomes more promising. I also think that Koeman is steady if unspectacular.

There will inevitably be some criticism of Moshiri if he is appointed. I think we have to give a little defence of him. Failing to attract Mourinho is very different from refusing to go for Mourinho. Secondly Koeman is currently managing a side in the top 8 of the premier league. Southampton fans currently laugh at the prospect of him leaving to come to Everton. I know when you spoke to 5live they basically mocked you for suggesting it. That is the context we ought to see this appointment. Everton have not taken a manager from another Premier League team for the best part of 20 years. It remains a long way from the process we saw under Kenwright.

The third point is, especially if a Director of football comes in, that managers may not stay for the length of periods we have seen. We have had 3 managers in 18 years. I can only think of Arsenal who are a club who can match that (we are the same as Manchester United). Koeman has never really stayed anywhere for a long time. I am not entirely convinced Koeman if he were to come would be with us long term. If he did as you are suggesting, get us into the Champions League I could see him leaving for Arsenal/Barcalona. If he struggles like he did at Valencia/AZ I think he will be relieved of his duties quite quickly. Essentially Koeman may well be the man to restore us to being a consistent top 8 team, with hopefully the added fillip over Moyes that he is a big name and won things so we may stand a better chance of picking up a trophy.

The analogy I have used is Manchester City. The first manager they got under the Sheiks was Mark Hughes. It's not as simple as getting Guardiola as your first choice. Hughes played an important role for them and sent a clear message out. I think Koeman if selected would be our Hughes. He will do a job over the medium term and hopefully leave us in a stronger position than we are now in to make a bigger appointment. That is a foreign mentality for most Evertonian's (myself included) who like longevity of managers and seeing using a manager for 2-3 seasons before they move onto better things is a problem.

Most of this post isn't really about his managerial abilities. If we get him I will do more on that. I do think it's important to provide some balance in relation to the board though and it's not "more of the same". If you aim for the best and don't get it that will still see changes to the environment at the club than just settling for second best as our first choice.

 

[Falcao]

This is my thinking. Mourinho won't be joining United.

De Gea is another Mendes client, he could well leave if Madrid still want him.

 

[boris]

Lets go down the XIs.

1. Adrian - on par with Joel.
2. Byram - Not seen enough of to form an opinion.
3. Cresswell - on current form, better than Baines.
4. Reid - on current form, better than Stones.
5. Ogbonna - Jagielka is better.
6. Noble - On par with Barry.
7. Kouyate - Better than McCarthy.
8. Payet - Better than Barkley.
9. Carroll - Lukaku is better.
10. Lanzini - Better than Lennon.
11. Antonio - Better than Cleverley.

Apart form Carroll, I don't agree with any of that really but why base it on current form?? One team is playing at the top of there game, having the season of there lives for a manager who I think people are getting carried away with. The other team have currently downed tools and are making sure the idiot guiding them is gone but have been miles ahead of them for years.

Even this year we've been the better side against them twice and going in to the last week of the season it's still possible we could finish with 1 or 2 teams at most between us and have gone further than them in both cups. They are having a great season though or so they and the media would have you believe.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

Koeman with a big transfer budget would take us to the next level, I have no doubts about that.

He will get a big club come in for him soon if he continues what he's doing, he could easily do exactly what Pochettino has done with his career, one move to a bigger club with a bigger budget and then regarded as one of the best managers in Europe.

 

[hetion]

I love how many people are saying Koeman isn't good enough, hasn't won enough, hasn't got any higher than Moyes, Spurs etc wouldn't hire him...

Pochettino says hi.