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Next manager discussion (poll reset 21/05/2016)

Who would you want?

  • Frank de Boer

    Votes: 302 17.0%
  • David Moyes

    Votes: 56 3.2%
  • Manuel Pellegrini

    Votes: 152 8.6%
  • Ronald Koeman

    Votes: 286 16.1%
  • Other (please state below)

    Votes: 109 6.1%
  • Unai Emery

    Votes: 870 49.0%

  • Total voters
    1,775
  • Poll closed .
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If we get the new manager first and the D of F comes later, there is a possibility for conflict if the manager begins his job with a considerable amount of autonomy and then sees it eroded in key areas like transfers, scouting etc. Even more so if the manager has a successful start in the job. The manager's role could in time become primarily that of a first team coach, which in itself is not a bad thing.

I think it would have been preferable to have the D of F in place first, but clearly timings are against us here and the need to rid ourselves of RM is paramount.
 
Minds gone blank here, so I'll ask and look daft.

Where has a director of football worked out well in the long term please lids ?
 
Thanks for the information mate. Out of interest on the DoF role, and appreciate the constraints/limitations that apply with giving information, is there a specific individual under consideration for this role or, as with the manager position, more than one name being considered?

Would the club envisage a Director of Football to play a role in transfer policy, working alongside the manager?

Thanks.

There is a specific individual whom I cannot mention, I do not know the scope of the role, that would be down to discussion with the incoming manager and board.
 
Koeman took a team that lost some of its brightest talent and did well with them. This skill would be handy for us as I can't see rom or stones staying.
 
Good post mate. I am very interested in hearing of the DOF role. I think it would be a big development for how Everton are managed going forward. I think our biggest mistake of the last 20 years was not getting Cruyff in as a DOF in 98 to work above Kendall.

Yes me too mate. I won't engage in revisionism and pretend I would be delighted with Koeman, I will certainly live with it and give him full support if it transpires.

DoF I find intriguing, it would indicate longer-term planning which is always good. They can always step in to take first-team duties as well in the event of the departure of a manager. Having such a person in place may have made it easier to remove Martinez and ensure a degree of continuity IMO, a bridge between an outgoing and incoming manager, if you will.
 

The reality is though "better than Martinez" is not our only benchmark. Currently there are probably 18 managers in the PL who are better than Martinez. Moyes is better than him.

The key point in this, is to note the change at board level. Had Moshiri been around 3 years ago I doubt we'd have got Martinez. So I take it as red that we should be attracting a manager better than him. I think what we would like to see this summer is a real statement of intent. Of course Swansea & Stoke wouldn't say no to Koeman but again that does slightly miss the point, that we are trying to make a statement and as a fanbase begin to accept the idea we are bigger than Stoke and West Brom.

For a lot of fans that means mocking the above teams, or talking about our great history. However to really be a big club we do have to start thinking how a big clubs fans do, and that means having targets that go beyond "is he better than Wigan's ex manager" or "is he good enough for Stoke, Swansea or West Brom". Fans can't have it both ways. Complain about irrelevance in the eyes of the media, but in their own minds lump us in with those clubs.

As it happens I am not that anti-Koeman. None of the above necessarily discounts him but I do think as fans we need to shift our arguments somewhat. To be fair to Moshiri it could be that he is after better managers and they have turned us down. In all fairness to him if that's the case there is not an awful lot he can do. I would rather we tried to Mourinho and got knocked back than not bothering.

Remember City's first appointment was Mark Hughes. They then went to Mancini and Pellegrini before eventually getting the very best. Mourinho being available for us may have distorted the market a little. Normally we would have no chance of him, but circumstances have given us a glimmer of hope.

As for Koeman I think his work at Southampton has been very good. I think he'd be an ok fit for us. he has worked with a similar squad to ours and outperformed us while having to rebuild. He has shown some ability to bring players through. His record abroad is hit and miss, some successes and some failures. He is a big name player and will probably help us in bigger games. On the downside managing Southampton is a long way away from managing where Everton want to be. He is a steady choice but the rewards are not as great as Mourinho, or indeed the next rung down of De Boer, Emery or Tuchel.

I can only hope, if we get Koeman that it is alongside a change in approach that sees Everton managers having a job for life. If we progress how we ought to progress, with the sort of funding he may have Koeman to date hasn't shown me too much to show he can be a top manager. All we can hope, is if he stabilises us similar to how Moyes did and hits a ceiling that we would move him on and "upgrade" similar to how Citry have done.

The only final point I would make would be, in the eyes of the media and the wider world it would be a big statement. For us to take Southamptons manager would indicate a level of ambition that we haven't seen for 20 years. Taking a side who finished above us twice and are in the top 8 is something we haven't done in 2 decades. That does give me some confidence.

Esk has indicated there have been talks with more than 1 manager. It may be he comes across best. He's not my number 1 choice and I would be underwhelmed but not dejected with him. I think he will do a solid job but do worry we'd hit a ceiling and can only hope if that happens he will be moved on.
Good write up mate.

One thing I will pick up on is that you say where everton want to be, koeman is already there. We haven't been taken over by billionaires and the changes that are wanted will take years not months. So where you say city moved between managers, they did but the money grew over thst time also. We aren't going to be in that postion unless we get loads more Moshiri join the club.

So generally better than Martinez should be the marker if we can't get better managers lining up just yet, which is perfectly understandable. This will be a big job for whoever comes in and I think a lot of fans who dismiss koeman for example don't realise this. We aren't getting top 4 next year, or spending 100 million plus and bringing in Superstars. The job is turning what has been proven to be a pretty poor squad into one that is competitive again. Koeman can do that as he has proven already he can do that.

But generally either we are a Moyes level club in this era or a Martinez one. Koeman is more Moyes level which has to be the sensible aim right now. If Jose turned up and pushed us further, great. But Moyes had us top 6 every year, we need to be there again but if koeman suffers from the Moyes effect of a glass ceiling, then we need to get shut long before we did last time and carry in growing ambition.
 
This is the Everton Forum.

This is not the West Brom Forum.
Clearly you have no response then? My reply did not talk about thst clubs besides comparing us to them which over 2 years is a pretty accurate reflection judging the table.
Or do you disagree with thst point?
 
Minds gone blank here, so I'll ask and look daft.

Where has a director of football worked out well in the long term please lids ?

Depends. I think Southampton is one example of success. They were in the third tier at the time of his appointment, so he's overseen two promotions, PL stability, impressive youth development and successful managerial appointments since 2010. Obviously the job spec at Everton will be slightly different.

And there's Joe Kinnear, obviously...
 

Depends. I think Southampton is one example of success. They were in the third tier at the time of his appointment, so he's overseen two promotions, PL stability, impressive youth development and successful managerial appointments since 2010. Obviously the job spec at Everton will be slightly different.

And there's Joe Kinnear, obviously...
Haha.. all i can think of is Joe, Venables and Harry redknapp..

I know it must have worked really well somewhere ??
 
I'm certainly not averse to the idea of Ronald Koeman, and I have absolutely no doubt that he'd be a vast improvement on Martinez. I think some people are missing the point of why it's an underwhelming appointment though.

Of course Mourinho is a long shot, and i don't think anyone seriously thinks we're going to get Simeone or Allegri or someone of that ilk. I was hoping for an exciting appointment though - somebody like De Boer, Cocu or would fit that bill, a relatively young manager on the up, who can be with us for the long term and is genuinely ambitious. Koeman is a journeyman as a manager, we'd be his 9th club, and there's no indication that he'd be here for the long haul. That's fine if you're a top draw appointment like Mourinho or maybe Low who is going to make people sit up and take notice, but 3 years of just getting back to where we were for most of the last decade and then looking for someone else? Hardly inspiring me to go and renew my season ticket.
 
There is a specific individual whom I cannot mention, I do not know the scope of the role, that would be down to discussion with the incoming manager and board.
Would I be way off the mark wondering if it was someone with strong Everton links who was already involved with the club in some capacity.....?
 

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