Pre-Season

[Allezfan]

Mark Hughes actually gets paid more.

I know. That's stupid too.

Wayne Bridge is like the 46th best paid footballer in the world, I'd still fume if we made Anichebe the 47th. Or if we paid £34 million for Emile Heskey.

 

[Goat]

I know. That's stupid too.

I just dont see why his wages should be used as a stick to beat him with.

Whats the basis?

He gets paid LOADS so should be doing a better job?

 

[pbeyer]

Rodwell, Barkley, Vellios, Duffy, Vaughan, Baxter, Coleman. Moyes ruins promising young players by either playing them out of position or not playing them at all.

If Moyes goes, we won't see a midfield made up of Neville, Heitinga and Cahill ever again and we might see different formations for different matches rather 4-5-1 at home against QPR and forcing Beckford to play as a lone striker when it clearly didn't work but he was very good paired with Saha. We might even see an eleven of players all in their natural positions and picked on form rather then old favourites.

And we won't see Anichebe get his 136th Everton appearance.

Rodwell and Vaughn have both been "ruined" by injuries, not Moyes.

No one in their right mind could possibly say that Barkley or Duffy have been ruined. Duffy is set to go on loan to a Championship side. As a centre half you need to gain experience. Barkley is 18 and it has been said that he improved a lot by developing outside of the limelight.

Vellios is 20, he is still developing. To say he is ruined is completely premature.

Of these players, who exactly has he played out of position? You will say Coleman, but it is pretty standard to start off on the wing and drop them back into fullback once they have matured and improved defensively (ie Gareth Bale being a recognized fullback before playing the wing for Tottenham) When Duffy gets a game, its in his recognized position. Rodwell had brief spells on the wing in past years, but when he gets a consistent run of games now, its in the midfield.

You make it seem like he's played Vellios at RB, Rodwell as ball boy and Coleman as keeper. This is certainly not the case.

You seem to have an agenda against Moyes on this one.

 

[Allezfan]

I just dont see why his wages should be used as a stick to beat him with.

Whats the basis?

He gets paid LOADS so should be doing a better job?

We don't have a lot of money so what money we do spend should be useful. If we can replace Moyes with someone who does an equally good job for much less money, shouldn't we?

 

[steken1]

Can't believe you'd accept relegation...I'm just walking away now.

I'd rather live a day as a lion than a lifetime as a mouse. If you get my drift.

 

[ToffeeBlueNose]

More crying on Moyes? Is it Moyes fault that he makes the money he does? Hmm if you were offered a great raise at work would you turn it down? Seriously guys. Moyes has done a lot for Everton.

The grass is always greener syndrome is in full effect in this thread. I will say what I have said before. If not Moyes then who? Who wants to come in with our budget? Anyone who does would be immediately crying about the lack of funds, etc. Then the losses would be blamed on lack of funds. Face it, Moyes is the best man for us.

Finally, reality check lads. We are not a top tier club. We are skint, could use a new stadium and have to rely on aging players to get the job done. We are not going to realistically compete for Champs League, or the League title unless we get some serious investment. We are a club that no one likes to play, but we are not top tier. Those days are gone until the current board and owner sells to a Billionaire. That's how the game goes these days. The sooner we except that the sooner we can move to doing the right thing which is supporting Moyes, and the players.

 

[steken1]

Couldn't agree more. He's a great servant and should be treated with respect. What he's not is value for the money he's being paid. That's not his fault for accepting it but it's why he shouldn't still be employed here.

I agree with some of your points mate but that ones nonsense. Our wage bill see's us round about 11th, yet we finish 7th. Thats £3m a year alone. He pays for himself in that way.

Then in terms of his transfer dealings the only manager who does better is Wenger. We're virtually at a break even over the last decade. How much have almost all other clubs that have been consistently in the top flight spent? The one's that never spent have gone down bar us and Arsenal.

There's loads to have a go at him for but thats not one IMO.

 

[Summerskin]

If not Moyes then who?

2001: "If not Smith then who? We're sh*t, we've got no money etc..."

You sound like the kind of person who won't leave his wife even though he hates her for fear of not finding anybody else, terrible way to live.

 

[Allezfan]

Rodwell and Vaughn have both been "ruined" by injuries, not Moyes.

No one in their right mind could possibly say that Barkley or Duffy have been ruined. Duffy is set to go on loan to a Championship side. As a centre half you need to gain experience. Barkley is 18 and it has been said that he improved a lot by developing outside of the limelight.

Vellios is 20, he is still developing. To say he is ruined is completely premature.

Of these players, who exactly has he played out of position? You will say Coleman, but it is pretty standard to start off on the wing and drop them back into fullback once they have matured and improved defensively (ie Gareth Bale being a recognized fullback before playing the wing for Tottenham) When Duffy gets a game, its in his recognized position. Rodwell had brief spells on the wing in past years, but when he gets a consistent run of games now, its in the midfield.

You make it seem like he's played Vellios at RB, Rodwell as ball boy and Coleman as keeper. This is certainly not the case.

You seem to have an agenda against Moyes on this one.

It's an outrage how little time on the pitch our kids are getting. They're not being sent on loan and they're not replacing the first teamners even when we're on a eight game losing streak. Vellios, Barkley and Duffy should be getting a lot more games at Everton then they have been. They were excellent when they were playing. Players like Baxter etc clearly suffered from the lack of first team football.

And Barkley should be playing in the middle rather than on the wing. Same with Rodwell, who is clearly suffering under the everton coaches when you consider how much better he looked for Capello's England when he was told to attack rather than sit back all the time, and doesn't even have a set position for us.

Coleman has had an awful season as a wing and not even been tried at RB despite it being a terrible position for us.

This is the coaching staff who played Arteta behind Fellaini for nearly a year depite it never working and it beign obvious that Mikel needed to be further forward and who keep pushing Osman out to the wing when he's awful there. It was fortunate for Rooney that he got away when he did when you consider how Coleman, Anichebe and Rodwell have gone backwards.

 

[Allezfan]

I agree with some of your points mate but that ones nonsense. Our wage bill see's us round about 11th, yet we finish 7th. Thats £3m a year alone. He pays for himself in that way.

Then in terms of his transfer dealings the only manager who does better is Wenger. We're virtually at a break even over the last decade. How much have almost all other clubs that have been consistently in the top flight spent? The one's that never spent have gone down bar us and Arsenal.

There's loads to have a go at him for but thats not one IMO.

The question is can we find a better manager who will cost less money in wages. If the answers yes then he's not value for money.

And I reckon attendence would be better if the football was.

 

[steken1]

The question is can we find a better manager who will cost less money in wages. If the answers yes then he's not value for money.

And I reckon attendence would be better if the football was.

I think there's a fair chance we could find a better manager that would improve on some aspects, like the style of play. Whteher they could find the players to sell on for big money that keeps the club afloat is questionable. Not many managers can say they have done it over the course of a decade. No doubt we'll do it again this summer?

The attendances were climbing for the most part under Moyes until the recession bit and people started losing work right, left and centre and ended up on the Delta's or working away.

 

[Extratime]

Yeah. Really.

 

[Allezfan]

Yeah. Really.

Did you think we'd have a chance of champions league football in 2004, lid?

 

[Extratime]

2001: "If not Smith then who? We're sh*t, we've got no money etc..."

You sound like the kind of person who won't leave his wife even though he hates her for fear of not finding anybody else, terrible way to live.

Do me a favor then. Name a better man for the job. Give me a serious manager that won't whine about lack of funds constantly and still manage to get us a top 7 finish above the ****e? I am all ears.

 

[pbeyer]

It's an outrage how little time on the pitch our kids are getting. They're not being sent on loan and they're not replacing the first teamners even when we're on a eight game losing streak. Vellios, Barkley and Duffy should be getting a lot more games at Everton then they have been. They were excellent when they were playing. Players like Baxter etc clearly suffered from the lack of first team football.

They arent being sent on loan, because they are needed to fill the team sheet. If Distin were to get injured during a game whilst Jags was hurt, Duffy would have needed to step in mid game. If he is on loan, we lose an option there and then everyone is up in arms when we have Hibbert playing centre half.

And Barkley should be playing in the middle rather than on the wing. Same with Rodwell, who is clearly suffering under the everton coaches when you consider how much better he looked for Capello's England when he was told to attack rather than sit back all the time, and doesn't even have a set position for us.

Why give him a set position if he functions well in others? Look at Fellaini, we would have been playing a bit differently at the end of last season if we had just left him in his set position. Same goes with Coleman, if we hadn't put him at RM because his set position was RB, things would have been a bit different for him and he could be seen as a 60k flop. Doesn't make sense to use a player in one dimension if they are multi-faceted and have the ability to play in multiple positions, especially while they are young. Rodwell was seen as a CB while coming up as a youth, if Moyes doesnt slot him in the midfield and instead keeps him just at CB, he doesn't get a game for years.

Coleman has had an awful season as a wing and not even been tried at RB despite it being a terrible position for us.

You can see that he is lacking in the defensive skills department. While I agree he had an awful season on the wing, and does deserve a chance at RB, he should also develop behind the scenes to work on the defensive portion of his game. He came in as very raw and needs time to hone his skills.

This is the coaching staff who played Arteta behind Fellaini for nearly a year depite it never working and it beign obvious that Mikel needed to be further forward and who keep pushing Osman out to the wing when he's awful there. It was fortunate for Rooney that he got away when he did when you consider how Coleman, Anichebe and Rodwell have gone backwards.

Where is Arteta playing for Arsenal now?

Anichebe and Rodwell have both been hindered by very serious injuries. As has Barkley. They require more time to get back up to speed and to full fitness because of this and of course extended periods of time off from football are going to hurt your development.