Prostitution - Should We Legalise It?

[GrandOldTeam]

I'm sceptical of that argument. For it to work, you would have to then propose that all potential rapists would, after a session, make their way to the nearest brothel. I don't believe that would be the case.

Why all? You are making the mistake of branding all rapists the same, having the same motivation - that is not always the case, a lot of the time yeah, but not always.

In reality, most of these men will be cruising for women in pubs and nightclubs. I'm not saying that instances of rape would not be reduced, but I'd be amazed if legalisation made more than a dent in the figures.

I didn't say it would make a significant dent Neb, but I think it would more than likely prevent some rape - which is obviously a pro for the idea?

 

[Seamus Colemole]

100 yrs ago this wouldn't be accepted, it would be frowned upon, riots and the like. It's wrong every one who reads this will know it's wrong. It may come to a stage where it's socially acceptable and legalised, but it's still wrong, nothing good will ever come from prostituion, some man may feel good for 10 mins but will walk away feeling dirty and ashamed, the woman he has been with will feel cheap and unloved, a piece of meat and if she doesn't it's probably because her feelings have become so numbed from feeling it so often that she could never feel love again.

Society continues to change and evolve over time so what might of been considered "wrong" 100 years ago may not now.

Do you get that view of the feelings of prisitutes and clients after sex from experience or just cause its how you think they should feel so it fits in with your moral view?

Simple fact is that every single one of us is human and everything we do is basic human nature, we can not stop that. We can try and compress it and do what is best for a society as a whole but you will always get people who do not conform to that societies beliefs.

Yeah it would be nice if we all lived happily ever after but thats never gonna happen. As man evolves and his situations and thoughts change so will his actions.

That basically means that you will never ever stop human beings from engaging in sexual intercourse unless human nature itself changes. It is not something a society can ever truly be rid of.

Sex will always exist in many forms, for money is just one of them and until mans desire for sex is either artificially compressed or outgrown it will exist.

 

[Nebbiolo]

Society continues to change and evolve over time so what might of been considered "wrong" 100 years ago may not now.

And what might be considered right today may be considered wrong in a hundred years. You're talking relativism, which gets a pretty bad press and deservedly so. Not everything is relative to culture. Murder, rape and theft being three obvious distinctions.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

And what might be considered right today may be considered wrong in a hundred years. You're talking relativism, which gets a pretty bad press and deservedly so. Not everything is relative to culture. Murder, rape and theft being three obvious distinctions.

I was referring to his point about it being unacceptable a hundred years ago as though that has any relevance to its acceptance or not today (numerous examples of something not being acceptable 100 years ago but which are now, sure i dont need to spell any of them out)

You're right that things will change and what is accepted in one day and age is not in another.

I'm not entirely certain about this cause i'm no history buff but i'm pretty sure that rape, theft and murder have been acceptable pastimes in certain societies at times throughout history. Obviously they aren't now because we as a speices have moved on from that.

 

[Nebbiolo]

I was referring to his point about it being unacceptable a hundred years ago as though that has any relevance to its acceptance or not today (numerous examples of something not being acceptable 100 years ago but which are now, sure i dont need to spell any of them out)

You're right that things will change and what is accepted in one day and age is not in another.

I'm not entirely certain about this cause i'm no history buff but i'm pretty sure that rape, theft and murder have been acceptable pastimes in certain societies at times throughout history. Obviously they aren't now because we as a speices have moved on from that.

I'm unsure if that is true, Death. What tends to happen is that humans, being essentially intelligent but weak of will, will make exceptions to a general rule. I think murder is wrong, but I might allow it if it the murder of, say, Saddam Hussein or Hitler or some other ogre. When these acts are committed in a socially acceptable environment, it is usually against a climate where that society feels the victims somehow deserve to be violated or are sub-human so it doesn't really matter anyway. Case in point: rape camps in the former Yugoslavia, set up by Serbs, and populated by Bosnian women. These guys would not have dared to imprison Serbian women, but they did believe they could do it to the "evil" Bosnians. These guys knew rape was wrong, so they chose to get around that by violating those that their people didn't give a damn about.

 

[TX Bill]

No comment other than to say that I share Bundy's opinion and Nebbiolo's points as to the negatives.

...but then you all knew I was gonna say that didn't you?

 

[McBain]

I'm unsure if that is true, Death. What tends to happen is that humans, being essentially intelligent but weak of will, will make exceptions to a general rule. I think murder is wrong, but I might allow it if it the murder of, say, Saddam Hussein or Hitler or some other ogre. When these acts are committed in a socially acceptable environment, it is usually against a climate where that society feels the victims somehow deserve to be violated or are sub-human so it doesn't really matter anyway. Case in point: rape camps in the former Yugoslavia, set up by Serbs, and populated by Bosnian women. These guys would not have dared to imprison Serbian women, but they did believe they could do it to the "evil" Bosnians. These guys knew rape was wrong, so they chose to get around that by violating those that their people didn't give a damn about.

Deaths going back much further than rape camps.

Remember that men have bossed humanity for as long as we've had naval lint, possibly even further. Women have only just started getting equal pay and the like.

Okay so we are split between the morally righteous and the realistics.

Couple of curve-balls from Macca.

Your a normal Joe in the 1950's working in the snowy mountains, on a Hydro Electric scheme. Its a hard arse gig and you literally bust your hump day in day out. Your on a 10 year stretch and there's not a woman within a thousand miles. The morale of the men is getting lower than a Presidential election and your mustards just not getting cut dancing with the monkey up the mango tree anymore. Then, the gaffers decide to ship in a load of working women to satisfy the toey masses.

Do you

a) remain perched on your moral high horse awaiting the woman of your dreams to explore the wanton dimension of lust, or

b) part with some of your had earned coin providing work for afore-mentioned woman and instantly relieving yourself and possibly forming a well meaning relationship?

 

[Bluelass]

very, very interesting discussion and even more interesting to hear the views of mostly men.
First of all the technicalities - I personally don't think the law in the Uk will ever be changed until, at the very least, the Crown and the Church of England are separated. A few people have asked the question of how it could be managed and by whom? The police, local authorities? Perhaps Dutch could tell us how it's done in the Netherlands.

Morally, well, my view is that this is MY body and if I want to give some dirty old git a blow job for a tenner then that's up to me surely? (those aren't my going rates in case anyone asks)

The rub is of course that so many, many women are indeed forced into the sex trade for any number of reasons and that trade in turn may fund the supply of drugs which then cause addicts to steal to fund the habit, it goes on and on down the chain.
Drugs and the illegal sex trade go hand in hand but that's just one of the effects.

It's also quite interesting to read some of the comments regarding women being treated as sex objects etc.
May I be so bold as to ask those of you who engage in a bit of naughtiness flying solo as it were, with perhaps a girlie mag in the other hand, whether you might regard that as debasing women and treating them as a sex object?
I don't want to be provocative (pardon the pun) but where is that line between treating women (or men) as a sex object by actually having sex with them or by using images of them for self gratification?
The women in the mags may equally be forced into posing, so again, where do you draw the line?

IF and it's a big IF - a woman made an informed decision to have sex and be paid for that service, then I genuinely believe that it is her decision. Obviously if she is forced then it's a different ball game.

Rape - well, rapists are often about power and control and are often impotent and have to utilise bottles etc to satisfy their desire for penetration, dominance and control. I'm no expert of course but having been the victim of a failed sexual assault I have done my homework on what motivates the rapist and what to look out for.
Most rapes are commited by people you know! A scary statistic if ever there was one!

Anyway. just my take on it - a bit jumbled up but I'm sure you get the gist of it.

 

[Nebbiolo]

Okay so we are split between the morally righteous and the realistics.

That's a loaded statement and untrue. Realistically, legalising brothels is not an option that just happens. It would take years of negotiation, and proposed bills would almost certainly be pushed backwards and forwards between the Lords and Parliament. And nobody, apart from you, just now, is being morally righteous. It's a complicated issue and not one that can be summed up by a couple of assertions.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Deaths going back much further than rape camps.

I wrote a long reply last night but the crappy board stopped working when i tried to post it so i gave up and went to bed. But you are right, i'm thinking way further back in history.

I shouldn't of said rape and murder were acceptable pastimes like going to church or playing tennis, more that they were more accepted as ok as long as the victims "deserved" it in some way, much like in Serbian rape camps. Much like witch hunts, civilised socities probably never consider it ok to kill women for fun, yet if they were suspected of being a witch it was ok.

And in this day and age that would be way way less likely to happen in a civilised society.

I probably haven't explained it very well hopefully you'll see my point about changing atitudes over the course of history.

 

[Nebbiolo]

I wrote a long reply last night but the crappy board stopped working when i tried to post it so i gave up and went to bed. But you are right, i'm thinking way further back in history.

I shouldn't of said rape and murder were acceptable pastimes like going to church or playing tennis, more that they were more accepted as ok as long as the victims "deserved" it in some way, much like in Serbian rape camps. Much like witch hunts, civilised socities probably never consider it ok to kill women for fun, yet if they were suspected of being a witch it was ok.

And in this day and age that would be way way less likely to happen in a civilised society.

I probably haven't explained it very well hopefully you'll see my point about changing atitudes over the course of history.

You've explained it very well. Social groups agree that certain actions are wrong. But each group can usually find exceptions to the rule, when the bad act becomes acceptable.

But then the act is still wrong, and all societies remain committed to that ideal. It's just that the circumstances we find ourselves in can deem that the end result somehow justifies the means to it.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

very, very interesting discussion and even more interesting to hear the views of mostly men.
First of all the technicalities - I personally don't think the law in the Uk will ever be changed until, at the very least, the Crown and the Church of England are separated. A few people have asked the question of how it could be managed and by whom? The police, local authorities? Perhaps Dutch could tell us how it's done in the Netherlands.

Morally, well, my view is that this is MY body and if I want to give some dirty old git a blow job for a tenner then that's up to me surely? (those aren't my going rates in case anyone asks)

The rub is of course that so many, many women are indeed forced into the sex trade for any number of reasons and that trade in turn may fund the supply of drugs which then cause addicts to steal to fund the habit, it goes on and on down the chain.
Drugs and the illegal sex trade go hand in hand but that's just one of the effects.

It's also quite interesting to read some of the comments regarding women being treated as sex objects etc.
May I be so bold as to ask those of you who engage in a bit of naughtiness flying solo as it were, with perhaps a girlie mag in the other hand, whether you might regard that as debasing women and treating them as a sex object?
I don't want to be provocative (pardon the pun) but where is that line between treating women (or men) as a sex object by actually having sex with them or by using images of them for self gratification?
The women in the mags may equally be forced into posing, so again, where do you draw the line?

IF and it's a big IF - a woman made an informed decision to have sex and be paid for that service, then I genuinely believe that it is her decision. Obviously if she is forced then it's a different ball game.

Rape - well, rapists are often about power and control and are often impotent and have to utilise bottles etc to satisfy their desire for penetration, dominance and control. I'm no expert of course but having been the victim of a failed sexual assault I have done my homework on what motivates the rapist and what to look out for.
Most rapes are commited by people you know! A scary statistic if ever there was one!

Anyway. just my take on it - a bit jumbled up but I'm sure you get the gist of it.

In Holland it's controled by the government and the local authorities. As it's a tax-paying profession now, it's made it probably easier to filter out the illigal elements.

As said I don't have any problems with it being legalised in Holland. in fact, i think it has been a turn for the best. As long as the women (or men for that matter) decide to become a prostitute and they are not forced into the busisness or underage, i really don't see the problem with it. If it's illigal, it doesn't mean it isn't happening and this way they at least have to pay their taxes, just as any normal working profession.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

You've explained it very well. Social groups agree that certain actions are wrong. But each group can usually find exceptions to the rule, when the bad act becomes acceptable.

But then the act is still wrong, and all societies remain committed to that ideal. It's just that the circumstances we find ourselves in can deem that the end result somehow justifies the means to it.

Then we get onto sociopaths and how any act can be determined as right or wrong but thats a whole different issue and not really relevant to whether prostitution should be legalised or not

 

[Nebbiolo]

Then we get onto sociopaths and how any act can be determined as right or wrong but thats a whole different issue and not really relevant to whether prostitution should be legalised or not

That's true, but an interesting area in itself.

The old psychopath and sociopath thing is frightening.

I see from some of your posts that you find the dark side of the human character quite fascinating.

The quote below (my sig) is from one of the darkest, yet unassuming and convincing sociopaths that you'll read (but hopefully not meet ).

You can get the book for about 25p on Amazon (plus postage). I'd recommend it mate. Truly, it chills you to the bone. No thrills, or Hollywood tricks. Just an honest and chilling portrayal of a sociopath come psychopath come split personality come ...

 

[Seamus Colemole]

That's true, but an interesting area in itself.

The old psychopath and sociopath thing is frightening.

I see from some of your posts that you find the dark side of the human character quite fascinating.

The quote below (my sig) is from one of the darkest, yet unassuming and convincing sociopaths that you'll read (but hopefully not meet ).

You can get the book for about 25p on Amazon (plus postage). I'd recommend it mate. Truly, it chills you to the bone. No thrills, or Hollywood tricks. Just an honest and chilling portrayal of a sociopath come psychopath come split personality come ...

Yeah i love it all, the human mind and how it works is incredible, so much we dont yet know but are discovering stuff all the time. And the more you learn about the dark side of humanity the more you can understand it. Life would be pretty boring if we were all made the same lol.

That book looks interesting, don't usually go for fiction but i'll see if i can pick it up. Have you read "The Killer Inside Me" by the same guy which people in the reviews mentioned?