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Quarter Finals

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Drico said:
This sums up England, in general. It's not good enough for some that England have some very good players and have a very good team. They have to be "world beaters" - but they're not. And that hype eventually crushes even their very good players. Kane is a fine player. England have quite a few very good players. But until they have a genuine genius, a collection of world-class players, and a little perspective, they're not winning anything.
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I still think we lack that player who can link everything together, always have done. Whether it’s the deep lying playmaker like a Pirlo Xavi Modric or that number ten like a Messi Zidane Griezemann. Someone who puts their foot on the ball and gets everyone else playing and controls the game.

We just don’t ever seem to have it, a load of endeavour and energy, tricky wide players etc. but never that maestro that nearly all the great teams have. Foden was a massive let down as he’s clearly not that player. I’m not sure we’ve had one really since Scholes and even he was often shunted outwide so Lampard and Gerrard could batter some long balls out of play. Maybe Wilshere if he hadn’t have been a perma crock.
 
Saint Domingo said:
I still think we lack that player who can link everything together, always have done. Whether it’s the deep lying playmaker like a Pirlo Xavi Modric or that number ten like a Messi Zidane Griezemann. Someone who puts their foot on the ball and gets everyone else playing and controls the game.

We just don’t ever seem to have it, a load of endeavour and energy, tricky wide players etc. but never that maestro that nearly all the great teams have. Foden was a massive let down as he’s clearly not that player. I’m not sure we’ve had one really since Scholes and even he was often shunted outwide so Lampard and Gerrard could batter some long balls out of play. Maybe Wilshere if he hadn’t have been a perma crock.
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Spot on
 
Saint Domingo said:
I still think we lack that player who can link everything together, always have done. Whether it’s the deep lying playmaker like a Pirlo Xavi Modric or that number ten like a Messi Zidane Griezemann. Someone who puts their foot on the ball and gets everyone else playing and controls the game.

We just don’t ever seem to have it, a load of endeavour and energy, tricky wide players etc. but never that maestro that nearly all the great teams have. Foden was a massive let down as he’s clearly not that player. I’m not sure we’ve had one really since Scholes and even he was often shunted outwide so Lampard and Gerrard could batter some long balls out of play. Maybe Wilshere if he hadn’t have been a perma crock.
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James Maddison is yer man. He needs to be brought into the side and built around, with Bellingham and Rice as the two in the centre. Give Maddison the free role Griezmann has for France.
 
Rogue Trader said:
I really don't get the reaction to England bowing out last night, they choked, the French defence was terrible, you'd think England will have a better opportunity in 4 years time? I can't see it. There seems to be a real mentality issue with the England national team.
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Well what else can you say when your centre forward spoons a penalty into orbit with 5 minutes left to take you into extra time? How do you want people to react to it? Not really sure what it is you don’t understand tbh.
 

Saint Domingo said:
I still think we lack that player who can link everything together, always have done. Whether it’s the deep lying playmaker like a Pirlo Xavi Modric or that number ten like a Messi Zidane Griezemann. Someone who puts their foot on the ball and gets everyone else playing and controls the game.

We just don’t ever seem to have it, a load of endeavour and energy, tricky wide players etc. but never that maestro that nearly all the great teams have. Foden was a massive let down as he’s clearly not that player. I’m not sure we’ve had one really since Scholes and even he was often shunted outwide so Lampard and Gerrard could batter some long balls out of play. Maybe Wilshere if he hadn’t have been a perma crock.
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Yup. In my time watching football, the winners of major championships usually had a genius or two that took them to the title, most often a world-class striker and midfielder:

1980: West Germany - Rummenigge and Schuster
1982: Italy - Rossi and Conti
1984: France - Platini and Giresse
1986: Argentina - Maradona
1988: Holland - Gullit and Van Basten
1990: West Germany - Matthäus and Hässler
1994: Brazil - Romario
1996: Germany - Sammer
1998 and 2000: France - Zidane and Thuram
2002: Brazil - Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo
2006: Italy - Cannavaro and Pirlo
2008, 2010, and 2012: Spain - Xavi and Iniesta (and Villa)
2014: Germany - Lahm and Schweinsteiger
2016: Portugal - Ronaldo
2018: France - Mbappe and Griezmann

The European Championships of 1992, 2004, and 2020 were won by collectives who lacked world-class genius-level players but who played like the Borg, a kind of hive mentality that, arguably, the Moroccans have emulated this time. But all the sides mentioned above also had a plethora of other world-class talent which I haven't even mentioned.

This is, generally, the level required to win these tournaments. Either have world-class players - not very good players - or become a complete team. It's hard for any country to have this at any time, let alone consistently.
 
Rogue Trader said:
I really don't get the reaction to England bowing out last night, they choked, the French defence was terrible, you'd think England will have a better opportunity in 4 years time? I can't see it. There seems to be a real mentality issue with the England national team.
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I dont think they choked. But i agree about mentality. You need to get over the line in games like this. France have that.
Its not easy winning a world cup.
 

Rogue Trader said:
I really don't get the reaction to England bowing out last night, they choked, the French defence was terrible, you'd think England will have a better opportunity in 4 years time? I can't see it. There seems to be a real mentality issue with the England national team.
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England are ranked between 5 and 8 in the world. They finished in the spots 5-8.

They pretty much did what it says on the tin. No more, no less
 
Big Sams Undies said:
There is absolutely no expectation from anybody that England will win anything.
Everyone in this country knows they won’t.

Pundits are obviously going to talk up Englands chances when presenting on English TV… “And tonight ladies and gentlemen we play France. Don’t bother watching, we’ll get beat, go and watch Netflix instead”

And Lee Dixon being xenophobic, he’s an absolute gimp of a man but I do not recall anything even slightly offensive being uttered. Can you please provide some examples?
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No I can’t be bothered, I think I wrote enough. What you read was just the initial musings of bystander to be agreed or disagreed with but not wrothy of in-depth analysis.
 
Old Blue 2 said:
That is not the issue. It's a case of performance. And he did jack. Rice was doing the defensive midfielder's job to perfection (a la Gary Speed for us years ago). The same goes for Bellingham, who contributed absolutely nothing last night. I've got nothing against the lad at all. Inexperienced, and it showed, while experienced players were left on the bench. Southgate got it wrong, totally, and some people can't see it...
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Both Henderson and Bellingham worked incredibly hard, they had to as French stretch the pitch extremely wide. You wanting to play a single centre mid against the best team in the tournament is utter hysteria. The vast majority can see that your assessment is tactically illiterate.
 

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