Homepage Article Rafael Benitez Appointed Everton Manager

[Kever10]

Imagine studying articles about 20 years old glorious campaigns of the fat mess who will be binned before Christmas anyway.
Can we see clips about his tactics in China? It would be more relevant.

Too much emphasis is given into "new ideas" in football. Football, the game, hasn't changed that much in decades, outside of superficial things like lighter balls, fitter players, minor rule changes, all of which have been gradual and across the board. The big ideas tend to be cyclical. I can't think of 1 genuine difference someone has made that has made me go "wow, I've never seen this before". Sam Allardyce was at the forefront of introducing technology into the Premier league 20 years ago to try and give his Bolton side a minor edge against his wealthier competition, but he has also regularly been considered a dinosaur for sticking with his belief that being direct can be a leveller against more technical players, teams and systems. The basic principles are the same though. You set up your team to be the best that they can be with the personel you have.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Benitez is the wrong man, at the wrong club, at the wrong time.

I tend to agree with this.

I am actually willing to accept the possibility that Moshiri might be right on this one. Benitez could, in actual fact, be the right man, at the right club, at the right time precisely because he is the wrong man, at the wrong club, at the wrong time.

We may need to be shaken up so badly by Benitez that, even though it doesn't go well, the culture of the club is affected by what happens. The whole thing is outside-the-box enough that it may work, even though it doesn't work in the short term.

I'm hoping for that latter outcome in addition to the bad short-term outcome that most of us seem to agree on. Benitez is the kind of guy that murders sacred cows by the gross. We may very well need that in order to get healthy as a club.

 

[windymiller]

He saved us from the relegation that was not going to happen? He has won stuff and there is a good chance he will add stability which is needed. I think he will have us in that top six.

It's your middle sentence I worry about. Loads of posters on here keep using the word stable and stability. What does that mean in a practical sense? Our league position is already stable, we've finished between 7th and 12th for the past seven seasons, we are consistently average. We are the definition of stable in terms of outcomes if not in coaching staff. I don't see us getting in the top 6 with Benitez, personally, but who knows. He hasn't won anything in ages and his recent PL experiences were underwhelming, I am prepared to remain underwhelmed.

 

[hippopotamus]

Too much emphasis is given into "new ideas" in football. Football, the game, hasn't changed that much in decades, outside of superficial things like lighter balls, fitter players, minor rule changes, all of which have been gradual and across the board. The big ideas tend to be cyclical. I can't think of 1 genuine difference someone has made that has made me go "wow, I've never seen this before". Sam Allardyce was at the forefront of introducing technology into the Premier league 20 years ago to try and give his Bolton side a minor edge against his wealthier competition, but he has also regularly been considered a dinosaur for sticking with his belief that being direct can be a leveller against more technical players, teams and systems. The basic principles are the same though. You set up your team to be the best that they can be with the personel you have.

Then we could sign Arsene Wenger next. Imagine the Blue Invincibles!

 

[windymiller]

I tend to agree with this.

I am actually willing to accept the possibility that Moshiri might be right on this one. Benitez could, in actual fact, be the right man, at the right club, at the right time precisely because he is the wrong man, at the wrong club, at the wrong time.

We may need to be shaken up so badly by Benitez that, even though it doesn't go well, the culture of the club is affected by what happens. The whole thing is outside-the-box enough that it may work, even though it doesn't work in the short term.

I'm hoping for that latter outcome in addition to the bad short-term outcome that most of us seem to agree on. Benitez is the kind of guy that murders sacred cows by the gross. We may very well need that in order to get healthy as a club.

I just don't see any evidence of that currently, he's kept on all the old boys on the coaching staff, he's arriving at training with Gylfi, it looks to me like a don't rock the boat retirement gig to me. Keep us in mid-table until we move into the new stadium when Usmanov can make some real money out of Liverpool Waters.

 

[windymiller]

Too much emphasis is given into "new ideas" in football. Football, the game, hasn't changed that much in decades, outside of superficial things like lighter balls, fitter players, minor rule changes, all of which have been gradual and across the board. The big ideas tend to be cyclical. I can't think of 1 genuine difference someone has made that has made me go "wow, I've never seen this before". Sam Allardyce was at the forefront of introducing technology into the Premier league 20 years ago to try and give his Bolton side a minor edge against his wealthier competition, but he has also regularly been considered a dinosaur for sticking with his belief that being direct can be a leveller against more technical players, teams and systems. The basic principles are the same though. You set up your team to be the best that they can be with the personel you have.

If ideas aren't important then recruitment can only be based on success, Benitez managed a club with similar but lesser resources to us in Newcastle and achieved 10th and 12th placed finishes. Some people claim that was a very successful outcome, I'm not sure about that at all. We have greater resources than Newcastle so what would success look like for us? It can't be 10th or lower because this season has been roundly described as unsuccessful. Would 8th be success? Not for me. I think ideas are important but even if we put them to one side, as you implied, the idea that Benitez is currently some sort of elite manager is not supported by any recent evidence.

 

[Martin Alvito]

I just don't see any evidence of that currently, he's kept on all the old boys on the coaching staff, he's arriving at training with Gylfi, it looks to me like a don't rock the boat retirement gig to me. Keep us in mid-table until we move into the new stadium when Usmanov can make some real money out of Liverpool Waters.

It is possible that Benitez is smart enough to understand that he has to do those things before he can start slaying sacred cows.

For all of his other manifest failings, I will say this about Benitez. He is smart. You may be right about his character. You may not be, in that I suspect he sows anger and fury everywhere he goes precisely because he insists on being true to himself and not putting up with nonsense.

It's why he could stare Mike Ashley down and tell him the truth, publicly, about the state of that squad. I would imagine that he will do the same here. He'll give everyone a chance, and then he'll start losing his stuff, Benitez-style. It's always how he's operated in the past.

I could be wrong about all of that. He may phone it in because he's older and doesn't have the energy to be Benitez anymore. If that's the case, you're right. For my money, it's the question on the table.

 

[sdk]

People had high hopes for Ancelotti but when he first came in, I sized him up, noted the paunch where the washboard abs should be, and immediately knew it would never work out. Sad to see us making the same mistake again.

 

[windymiller]

It is possible that Benitez is smart enough to understand that he has to do those things before he can start slaying sacred cows.

For all of his other manifest failings, I will say this about Benitez. He is smart. You may be right about his character. You may not be, in that I suspect he sows anger and fury everywhere he goes precisely because he insists on being true to himself and not putting up with nonsense.

It's why he could stare Mike Ashley down and tell him the truth, publicly, about the state of that squad. I would imagine that he will do the same here. He'll give everyone a chance, and then he'll start losing his stuff, Benitez-style. It's always how he's operated in the past.

I could be wrong about all of that. He may phone it in because he's older and doesn't have the energy to be Benitez anymore. If that's the case, you're right. For my money, it's the question on the table.

I just don't see any sporting reason for any "top" manager to go and work in the Chinese league. That's why I don't buy this whole ruthless ambition angle that is being promoted. It seems to me that this is a well paid gig near his house.

 

[Kever10]

If ideas aren't important then recruitment can only be based on success, Benitez managed a club with similar but lesser resources to us in Newcastle and achieved 10th and 12th placed finishes. Some people claim that was a very successful outcome, I'm not sure about that at all. We have greater resources than Newcastle so what would success look like for us? It can't be 10th or lower because this season has been roundly described as unsuccessful. Would 8th be success? Not for me. I think ideas are important but even if we put them to one side, as you implied, the idea that Benitez is currently some sort of elite manager is not supported by any recent evidence.

I'm not saying ideas aren't important, I'm saying this idea that certain managers in the modern game aren't aware of some secret new ideas that are in the game and can't adapt is silly. The game hasn't change that much in the last 20 years that managers who started longer ago are now somehow at a disadvantage to managers who haven't been doing it as long. It's fanciful and simplistic and frankly doesn't make sense.

If a manager hadn't been involved in the game for 20 years and tried to make a comeback, for instance, let's say Ron Atkinson, then maybe you would have a point. But Benitez has been involved the whole time during the minor evolutions of the game. Ancelotti wasn't past it, and their careers have been similar, albeit Ancelotti is slightly older.

It's all these silly pointless strawman arguments for why he is not the right man that annoy me. Just be honest about it. It's because he managed Liverpool. That's the reason.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

I tend to agree with this.

I am actually willing to accept the possibility that Moshiri might be right on this one. Benitez could, in actual fact, be the right man, at the right club, at the right time precisely because he is the wrong man, at the wrong club, at the wrong time.

We may need to be shaken up so badly by Benitez that, even though it doesn't go well, the culture of the club is affected by what happens. The whole thing is outside-the-box enough that it may work, even though it doesn't work in the short term.

I'm hoping for that latter outcome in addition to the bad short-term outcome that most of us seem to agree on. Benitez is the kind of guy that murders sacred cows by the gross. We may very well need that in order to get healthy as a club.

The bad medicine the club needs. A wrecking ball from which to build new foundations. High risk strategy, but agree something radical is needed to change direction. Easier for an already unpopular figure like Benitez I guess.

Counter argument is unless the board go, can he do that?

 

[Bluestar]

I just don't see any sporting reason for any "top" manager to go and work in the Chinese league. That's why I don't buy this whole ruthless ambition angle that is being promoted. It seems to me that this is a well paid gig near his house.

Chinese clubs were starting to pay eye watering sums and were making an effort to start something.
It could have been the beginning of something big and Benitez could have been in at the start. In the end, it was more like the first US league. They will be better when they build their own structure from the bottom up.

 

[windymiller]

I'm not saying ideas aren't important, I'm saying this idea that certain managers in the modern game aren't aware of some secret new ideas that are in the game and can't adapt is silly. The game hasn't change that much in the last 20 years that managers who started longer ago are now somehow at a disadvantage to managers who haven't been doing it as long. It's fanciful and simplistic and frankly doesn't make sense.

If a manager hadn't been involved in the game for 20 years and tried to make a comeback, for instance, let's say Ron Atkinson, then maybe you would have a point. But Benitez has been involved the whole time during the minor evolutions of the game. Ancelotti wasn't past it, and their careers have been similar, albeit Ancelotti is slightly older.

It's all these silly pointless strawman arguments for why he is not the right man that annoy me. Just be honest about it. It's because he managed Liverpool. That's the reason.

So, because you disagree with me it's a strawman argument? How arrogant. As is your assertion that the only reason I don't want him is because he managed the RS. I have already said I would have had Rodgers in charge. I could say that the only reason you want him is because he managed the RS. That would be a stupid thing to say as I have no clue as to your motivations, just as you have no clue about mine. You don't agree with my argument that he is past it. That's fine. I don't agree with your arguments that he is an elite manager. We'll find out soon enough who is right.

 

[windymiller]

Chinese clubs were starting to pay eye watering sums and were making an effort to start something.
It could have been the beginning of something big and Benitez could have been in at the start. In the end, it was more like the first US league. They will be better when they build their own structure from the bottom up.

Your first line is why he went. The huge sums of cash. The idea he wanted to be in on the ground floor of a new world class league is disingenuous, he went to enrich himself. That's fine. All I would point out is that he was already phenomenally wealthy, if he was ambitious he would have taken a job in a better league. Maybe there weren't any offers.

 

[rams1984]

Not really, but Guardiola (the actual best manager in the league) is 50 and doesn't look a hippo waiting for the bus to Garston

Not sure...Pep has not done much after Barca, where he was helped by a team in their prime, which was built by Frank Rijkaard. Anyone will win with Bayern & Man City. At Bayern he was not successful. He is still unable to win CL with ManCity and lost the best opportunity 2 months ago against Chelsea, everyone where shocked by the absence of Fernandinho, which was a major factor in their loss. And still PEP gets 200mn every year to spend on 2-3 players, Inspite of wasting millions on players he is unable to dictate in Europe.