2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[maccavennie]

I'm not a lunatic fringe. I'm not trying to destabalise the club. We didn't lose 3 pre season friendlies in a row. We didn't go one win in 7 pre season friendlies. These are real competitive matches. We have 4 injuries, not a crisis. It's a factor but not an excuse for 1 win in 7.

The only thing destabalising the club right now is the insistence by the board to impose a hugely unpopular manager onto the fans and it is humiliating watching this side play. If you think the board have this under control then I think you are mistaken.

We all know how this ends. The outcome is inevitable. Put an end to it before it gets much worse. A lot of people are going to look very silly when the inevitable and predictable happens.

Everything you say is spot on Tim.

Once the inevitable happens (barring him actually turning it around and getting positive results and performances against all the upcoming top clubs) imho it'll be Ferguson who is given the job and I think he'll be given it full time. Right or wrong, if it goes tits up results wise with Benitiez, Ferguson will step in and this time I think he'll back himself for the job permanently and not just as a caretaker manager.

 

[Billy Dean]

So we agree that he’s currently failing. At least that’s a starting point. As for Moyes, he banked credit for his first full season in charge, and the CL a couple of years later.

You can’t just rock up and not establish your credentials early doors.

I think "failing" is a bit over dramatic at this stage. He's been a mixed bag IMO so far. I'd never want a manager sacked after 10 games unless they'd gone full on Frank de Boer. Which he clearly hasn't

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

And you have definitively worked out after 10 games, £1.7m budget and a squad of largely midtable players with most of the better ones out injured that this isn't the right manager?

You used to be a sensible poster mate but now you just wet your knickers shouting at the clouds.

Hey mate, aren't you meant to be on a break, or was that yet more flatulence? ?

 

[Marius57]

That was the old naive FB92. The one who would let EFC dictate his mood, ruin his weekend.

When you reach nirvana and realise the 11 millionaires on the pitch care little about you and the billionaire owners can replace you in an instant with another supporter at the ground you'll come to accept it for what it ultimately is.

I marched with the Blue Union only because Kenwright was genuinely destroying the club - debt ridden, penniless, trying to be moved to DK which would have finished us as a club.

Moshiri for his faults at least will keep putting the dough in & is taking us to a world class stadium.

For me its a case of waiting for him to wake up/stumble onto a winning formula. Im certainly not going to be chasing him or the manager who's been here 5 seconds out the door - no quick fix for the situation we find ourselves in.

And that's great if you feel like that. But if that is truly the case, why are you still in here getting so angry at other posters who haven't got to that point? You can be at "nirvana" or whatever you want to call it, and if your nirvana contains benitez, I really pity you, but that doesn't mean you then have to try and force everyone else to have the same view point.

If you aren't arsed, why do you keep arguing about it and then calling people stupid and lunatics?

 

[ForeverBlue92]

And that's great if you feel like that. But if that is truly the case, why are you still in here getting so angry at other posters who haven't got to that point? You can be at "nirvana" or whatever you want to call it, and if your nirvana contains benitez, I really pity you, but that doesn't mean you then have to try and force everyone else to have the same view point.

If you aren't arsed, why do you keep arguing about it and then calling people stupid and lunatics?

Because these fans are misguided and think they are helping the situation by chasing out yet another manager and using up our january budget for players on paying said manager off.

I want nothing to do with the vocal minority but I cant just sit back and egnore it as they spread their propaganda.

 

[trueblue84]

And you have definitively worked out after 10 games, £1.7m budget and a squad of largely midtable players with most of the better ones out injured that this isn't the right manager?

You used to be a sensible poster mate but now you just wet your knickers shouting at the clouds.

That's the problem, though. "A squad of largely midtable players" shouldn't be getting bummed 5-2 at home to relegation certainties.

We are conceding goals like we did under Martinez. That is down to the manager, his tactics and his love of zonal marking.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

That was the old naive FB92. The one who would let EFC dictate his mood, ruin his weekend.

When you reach nirvana and realise the 11 millionaires on the pitch care little about you and the billionaire owners can replace you in an instant with another supporter at the ground you'll come to accept it for what it ultimately is.

I marched with the Blue Union only because Kenwright was genuinely destroying the club - debt ridden, penniless, trying to be moved to DK which would have finished us as a club.

Moshiri for his faults at least will keep putting the dough in & is taking us to a world class stadium.

For me its a case of waiting for him to wake up/stumble onto a winning formula. Im certainly not going to be chasing him or the manager who's been here 5 seconds out the door - no quick fix for the situation we find ourselves in.

Addressing the point in bold: Like a butterfly from the chrysalis. FB92 2.0

Y'know, more seriously, I'm in less pessimistic mood than yesterday. We do need to be able to seperate out managerial missteps, performance and good deeds from the rest of the club shenanigans, to an extent.

We (as a fan base) had similar debates under Moyes. Yes he's constrained by BK et al and finances. However, we could still evaluate his tactics, overall approach and sense of a plan. With Moyes he undoubtedly got things wrong tactically at times and frustrated many. He equally got a lot right. But there was also an overall sense of him trying to build within the constraints set. I also thought he generally represented the club well (ditto Martinez and Ancelotti, less so Koeman).

I guess that's how we have to judge any manager, including Benitez. There's context, but they do still have to account for decisions and actions.

 

[Harryflashman]

Everything you say is spot on Tim.

Once the inevitable happens (barring him actually turning it around and getting positive results and performances against all the upcoming top clubs) imho it'll be Ferguson who is given the job and I think he'll be given it full time. Right or wrong, if it goes tits up results wise with Benitiez, Ferguson will step in and this time I think he'll back himself for the job permanently and not just as a caretaker manager.

I think when the inevitable happens after what will be a period of Evertonians voting with their feet and spewing bile at the manager and owner he’ll get it because he’ll be the antithesis of what’s gone before . As we saw with the Chelsea game we’ll get an energised and enthused ground and everyone will be excited , in the short term at least .

The problem is how far that takes us and given what we’ve seen from owners and frankly fans I suspect we’ll be seduced by the freshness and something contrasting .

 

[Marius57]

Because these fans are misguided and think they are helping the situation by chasing out yet another manager and using up our january budget for players on paying said manager off.

I want nothing to do with the vocal minority but I cant just sit back and egnore it as they spread their propaganda.

Why are these fans misguided and not you though? Why are you the one to make that decision that they are misguided? You don't know them, their understanding, what research they have done to come to that decision. Taking that stance that you are right and they are wrong shows the same stubbornness as benitez and lack of empathy and udnerstanding. I stayed away to give him time to show what he could maybe do. Other than 2 games we have controlled, we haven't shown much and 1 win in 7 is relegation form, if it becomes 1 win in 8, that is Silva form who you were screaming to get sacked for that.

You keep saying its a vocal minority, but that's pure speculation on your part. I'd argue its more 50:50, but moving towards being a majority against. Especially now there are fans booing in the ground as he was booed by the travelling fans on Monday.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

That's the problem, though. "A squad of largely midtable players" shouldn't be getting bummed 5-2 at home to relegation certainties.

We are conceding goals like we did under Martinez. That is down to the manager, his tactics and his love of zonal marking.

We conceeded loads of goals under Koeman, Silva, Ancelotti whenever he never played 10 behind the ball.

The defenders and midfielders (Doucoure and Allan aside) are largely poor.

Read Michael Balls column in the Red Echo today - Michael Keane switched off on set pieces, not reacting at all when we conceede - he goes on to say Big Nev used to go ape when he let a goal in and was fuming at his team mates/himself.

We have a bad bunch of players both ability wise and mentality wise. Thats not to excuse the manager totally however thats the main issue we have - the recruitment.

But the solution in some peoples minds is just sack the manager 10 games in - im sure they'll dust themselves off and show some pride under the 6th manager in 7 years...

 

[Ghost Rider]

I'm not a lunatic fringe. I'm not trying to destabalise the club. We didn't lose 3 pre season friendlies in a row. We didn't go one win in 7 pre season friendlies. These are real competitive matches. We have 4 injuries, not a crisis. It's a factor but not an excuse for 1 win in 7.

The only thing destabalising the club right now is the insistence by the board to impose a hugely unpopular manager onto the fans and it is humiliating watching this side play. If you think the board have this under control then I think you are mistaken.

We all know how this ends. The outcome is inevitable. Put an end to it before it gets much worse. A lot of people are going to look very silly when the inevitable and predictable happens.

I would argue it is an injury crisis.

Losing we lost technically our 20 goal a season striker and have since lost games playing our third choice. So we have lost our direct goal sources for weeks on end and lost games as a direct result.

We lost our first choice cm with 2 backups unable to play 2 games in a row , leaving us with only 1 other cm after yet another injury.

We have lost at times both fullbacks to injury without actual back up for them.

The reasons why is another story but it has been a crisis, we have lost key players without replacements. Can't expect to win games without either of your strikers fit.

 

[MACCA75]

If he puts a midfield 2 in the line up v Spurs then someone needs to make an intervention and cart him away.

 

[Harryflashman]

Addressing the point in bold: Like a butterfly from the chrysalis. FB92 2.0

Y'know, more seriously, I'm in less pessimistic mood than yesterday. We do need to be able to seperate out managerial missteps, performance and good deeds from the rest of the club shenanigans, to an extent.

We (as a fan base) had similar debates under Moyes. Yes he's constrained by BK et al and finances. However, we could still evaluate his tactics, overall approach and sense of a plan. With Moyes he undoubtedly got things wrong tactically at times and frustrated many. He equally got a lot right. But there was also an overall sense of him trying to build within the constraints set. I also thought he generally represented the club well (ditto Martinez and Ancelotti, less so Koeman).

I guess that's how we have to judge any manager, including Benitez. There's context, but they do still have to account for decisions and actions.

The difficulty the manager has is that he isn’t judged fairly he just isn’t , because of who he is , the history , the disconnect and because of then unpopularity of the decision . That just isn’t fair and it isn’t his fault but I certainly feel like it’s true .

All that said he’s also made some bloody awful decisions.

 

[Boss Silva]

 

[Harryflashman]

Always liked him