2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[allezlesbleus]

I have read through your post and think you have made some valid points, will go through some if I may...

When Mike Walker left and Walter Smith came in Everton Football Club were still regarded as a biggish club.. still a big draw for a manager and Everton had been League Champions less than ten years before.. the club was at the time still regarded as one of the so called big five..

Now fast forward to now.. the Club has remained trophyless for coming up to thirty years, they are no longer regarded by the footballing community as a big club only by its own fans and have had manager revolving door as fast as Real Madrid last five or six years. What I am trying to get across is the Club is no longer as attractive as it once was so bringing in top managers is virtually impossible.

The other point you make about maybe a young and up and coming manager.. keen to make a go of it coming in is also unfortunately going to be just as difficult.. the have seen first hand with the treatment of Benitez there is a fanbase here who don’t give managers time.. don’t excuse terrible injury crisis and don’t care if the manager gets no real money.. they would basically eat a young manager with no real experience alive.. which young manager wants to risk his reputation or cut his teeth in such a poisonous environment.

Your final point about what Benitez has done well since he has been here is a difficult one to answer but will try to give you my thoughts.. I think in some situations the man has not helped himself and like all managers with hindsight he could of done better.. I think he knows more than most of us regarding what’s going on behind scenes so maybe that’s why certain players don’t play.. do play or get left out for certain reasons we know nothing about.. look at the Richarlison situation against Palace when he was dragged off.. we never knew the extent of the injury but he did.. he has the experience in the game to know what makes a successful football club he has managed Liverpool.. Madrid.. Inter Milan and Chelsea he can’t of gone there and not seen how they tick.. this is why he has started the build.. upsetting people too comfy in there positions.. won the battle over transfers with Brands.. got stuck into the medical set up all things he feels he can do better with with full control.. the problem is you want get to see the benefits overnight and fans or should I say the SKY Sports brigade won’t wait.. it’s just a modern fan thing no patience...

The club won’t get relagated that’s a fact.. even the most anti Benitez fan knows there are far worse teams below and they also know deep down once the injury list clears and a kinder run of fixtures come in.. the club will move up the table..

Thanks for the detailed answer, appreciate the time you put into it.
I fully agree that we have lost our standing in the game which will make lots of people think twice about managing us. It is certainly not a task for the faint hearted or someone who has at least paid a few dues somewhere quite tough.

I would say, though, that the expectations of the fans, overall, are not unrealistically high. Generally, people are not expecting CL qualification, cup winning seasons immediately. But largely the same group of players who we all know are not good enough for top 4 were close to European qualification most of last year while having lots of injuries too. This season basically there has been a collapse in their form, they play with even less cohesion than last year and lose game after game including matches against modest opposition. We had some shocking performances last year but some well-earned, narrow victories that showed something could be got out of the players. His default “style” is let the other team have the ball and then counter. Well, as a match-going fan, it is not much fun watching the opponent have the ball for most of the game, especially modest ones like Palace. It’s Allardyce all over again, the worst of Ancelotti.
And, proof of the pudding, it’s not actually very effective or successful either. Leeds away, Man U away, Arsenal home, last 30 v Burnley showed lots of positives. People have said Brighton,too, but I did not see that. Early on his substitutions showed the value of an experienced touch. But his usual set up is boring and overly cautious, his persistence with Rondon is mad and his comments about us going in the right direction are taking the proverbial.
I am not a Sky generation fan and I get a bit miffed to be called such. I am not expecting miracles overnight but do expect us to get stuck in and attack teams who are not that great.
He may have learned a great deal at those clubs but the current evidence is that he can’t turn that learning into a performance that can get points off Villa, Wolves, Watford, Brentford and Palace and he is showing signs of reverting to the grumpy, blame others and cold shoulder anyone who disagrees persona which I think serves Everton badly. He is far from the only problem in the club, but I remain to be convinced that he is the solution.
Anyway, time will tell. A few performances like Arsenal in the next six games and things will look brighter. A few more like Palace and we will be looking over our shoulders and relying on others being garbage. And that state of affairs, if it comes to pass, is just not good enough.

 

[Dixieslaces]

He does say and do some odd things and his emotional intelligence seems to be off

On paper, taking Liverpool related emotion out, Rafael has solid credentials. Newcastle didn’t have that baggage and they grew to like him

Moshiri certainly was pushing it asking the EFC fans to accept Raf’a. He’s hoped that logic could prevail but its in fairly short supply in the fan base - who don’t seem consider the bigger picture or know how to deal with any poor run

It’s up to the fans really as to how they want to try to help the club in these circumstances. The most difficult perhaps, yet also most helpful would be to support the club as on Monday, in my view. I’d question if we’re up to that task though…

You are putting a lot on the fans! primarily it sits with the manager and his teams performance.

I'm sure Ancelotti, had we been allowed fans last year would have experienced some backlash at Goodison for our terrible home form but ultimately he was a much more tolerable option and had he not been a complete bell and dumped us like a smelly turd, w9uld have been afforded a bit more time but had that form continued he, like Benitez now, would be under no illusion as to the Fans expectations.

The fact that Benitez is feeling it more is down to poor decisions above in the first instance but is more about what's seem on the pitch which IS about the fans as that's what footie is about, The Fans, its why we exist as a club. So it's not the Fans per se but is the manager and teams performance that drive the fans

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Thinking about it it’s a bit unfair all this having a pop at Benitez, we need to wait till every single player is back from injury and we have a run of easy games before we judge him.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

He does say and do some odd things and his emotional intelligence seems to be off

On paper, taking Liverpool related emotion out, Rafael has solid credentials. Newcastle didn’t have that baggage and they grew to like him

Moshiri certainly was pushing it asking the EFC fans to accept Raf’a. He’s hoped that logic could prevail but its in fairly short supply in the fan base - who don’t seem consider the bigger picture or know how to deal with any poor run

It’s up to the fans really as to how they want to try to help the club in these circumstances. The most difficult perhaps, yet also most helpful would be to support the club as on Monday, in my view. I’d question if we’re up to that task though…

If “logic” had prevailed, he never would have been appointed in the first place.

His record at Newcastle was comparable to Steve Bruce. He was relegated with them. (I never understand why he gets a free pass on this. They were 1pt from safety when he was hired, and they were relegated with a game to spare.
He then went to China and failed. These are far more relevant than what he did with Liverpool, Valencia, Chelsea.

LOGICALLY, he should never have been anywhere near the job, liverpool connections or none. Those connections were just the icing on the cake that should have made doubly certain he never darkened the goodison door.

 

[Legend Barry Horne]

He may have business acumen in fact he will have undoubtedly but this does not translate or transfer on the evidence we see before us to running a football club and after all the whole reason we are here is THE football club so its only fair that his acumen be questioned in relation to that!

He has made idiotic decisions therefore it fits.

He needs to totally back away, completely from football matters and utilise his experience, acumen and money establishing a firm business model that generates income, sponsorship and interest in Everton and to stop all the Marquee Chasing "statements" they have, thus far failed, Stadium aside.

He does seem quite weird but is it really ‘idiotic’ to have appointed any of Silva, Koeman, Allardyce, Ancelotti or Benitez - all came with track records of a sort and were amongst the best available on paper

Having Sigurdsson, Klaassen and Rooney at the same time didn’t seem ideal

Some of the signings haven’t worked, like Kean

But also his money has bought some decent players who are with us now - some of which were top players at other prem clubs when we signed them: Pickford, Keane, Richarlison, Godfrey, Doucoure, Digne, Gomez, Mina, Allan. I guess there’s people on this forum who’ll say they’re all a load of rubbish but the fact is they all came with good qualities

What went on with James was bizarre and Raf’a played a part in that

But the fans need to accept they’re part of the jigsaw here and if everything is viewed through a lense of negativity, it won’t help

Strong ongoing support will help make Goodison a fortress once more

 

[Saint Domingo]

And yet still comfortably above us in the league despite this horrific record (and it is)

Another inconvenient truth?

I’d wager we’ll finish ahead of Brighton. Potter has also had a lot longer with his players, and isn’t battling injuries to his best players. It’s just reinforcing the point that all these managers who supposedly would do so much better with us like Bielsa Potter Smith Hasenhuttl, they’ve all hit rough times with their clubs despite being in far better circumstances than Benitez is in

 

[Saint Domingo]

Thinking about it it’s a bit unfair all this having a pop at Benitez, we need to wait till every single player is back from injury and we have a run of easy games before we judge him.

We could just wait one season. Play everyone home and away. Might be a better metric than 17 games. Remember when we used to give managers three seasons? Oof imagine.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

He does seem quite weird but is it really ‘idiotic’ to have appointed any of Silva, Koeman, Allardyce, Ancelotti or Benitez

Yes, no (sort of), yes, no (sort of), yes.

Hope that helps

 

[Legend Barry Horne]

If “logic” had prevailed, he never would have been appointed in the first place.

His record at Newcastle was comparable to Steve Bruce. He was relegated with them. (I never understand why he gets a free pass on this. They were 1pt from safety when he was hired, and they were relegated with a game to spare.
He then went to China and failed. These are far more relevant than what he did with Liverpool, Valencia, Chelsea.

LOGICALLY, he should never have been anywhere near the job, liverpool connections or none. Those connections were just the icing on the cake that should have made doubly certain he never darkened the goodison door.

OK but it’s odd just to write off Liverpool, Valencia, Chelsea etc. He has experience

It’s a case of what was available and who we could attract also. I seem to remember Nuno was in contention - I’ve no doubt the fans would find reasons not to like him. I don’t think Conte would have come. Who is there out there who can bring the perfection EFC fans are searching for?

Better to live in reality in my view and tough this out

 

[roy vernon]

the game isn't just about tactics is it. if you lose half your players, and the rest are rubbish you can have the best tactics in the world and it aint gonna make much difference.

We are talking about the genius who set up with a midfield 2 against Liverpool and City, who gave Brentford and Crystal Palace all the time in the world against us by sitting back and letting them have possession, who somehow managed to lose 5:2 to Watford and who took over a side with a very solid defence, especially when defending set pieces, he decided to play an ultra defensive style and yet, that solid unit can no longer defend. From set pieces they look as if they have never met each other.

Tactically excellent my arse.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

We could just wait one season. Play everyone home and away. Might be a better metric than 17 games. Remember when we used to give managers three seasons? Oof imagine.

I don’t know where our next win is going to come from and that’s the worrying thing. It’s that bad I wouldn’t put money on us beating Newcastle or Norwich in our next run of games.

 

[Marius57]

OK but it’s odd just to write off Liverpool, Valencia, Chelsea etc. He has experience

It’s a case of what was available and who we could attract also. I seem to remember Nuno was in contention - I’ve no doubt the fans would find reasons not to like him. I don’t think Conte would have come. Who is there out there who can bring the perfection EFC fans are searching for?

Better to live in reality in my view and tough this out

It's not reality though. Not for 99.9999% of people. It's a multi billionaires plaything. Which is a reality that noone on this site can even imagine. The issue is, we are emotionally invested, likely much more than moshiri and certainly more than benitez, both of whom ultimately couldn't care less about any of us.

Also noone is asking for perfection. But a few wins would be nice.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

OK but it’s odd just to write off Liverpool, Valencia, Chelsea etc. He has experience

It’s a case of what was available and who we could attract also. I seem to remember Nuno was in contention - I’ve no doubt the fans would find reasons not to like him. I don’t think Conte would have come. Who is there out there who can bring the perfection EFC fans are searching for?

Better to live in reality in my view and tough this out

It’s not odd at all. All three were either close to or over a decade ago. They’re irrelevant. Football has moved on significantly and there is NOTHING in his recent employments to suggest he has moved with it.

Howard Kendall had incredible pedigree. Bringing him back for a third spell was an act of lunacy/desperation. And that was with a manager who the fans were predisposed to love.

What a manager did a decade ago means vastly less (if it means anything at all) than what they’ve done recently.

 

[Dixieslaces]

He does seem quite weird but is it really ‘idiotic’ to have appointed any of Silva, Koeman, Allardyce, Ancelotti or Benitez - all came with track records of a sort and were amongst the best available on paper

Having Sigurdsson, Klaassen and Rooney at the same time didn’t seem ideal

Some of the signings haven’t worked, like Kean

But also his money has bought some decent players who are with us now - some of which were top players at other prem clubs when we signed them: Pickford, Keane, Richarlison, Godfrey, Doucoure, Digne, Gomez, Mina, Allan. I guess there’s people on this forum who’s say they’re all a load of rubbish but the fact is they all came with good qualities

What went on with James was bizarre and Raf’a played a part in that

But the fans need to accept they’re part of the jigsaw here and if everything is viewed through a lense of negativity, it won’t help

Strong ongoing support will help make Goodison a fortress once more

We are some of the most passionate, patient and faithful fans. I'm still not sure the fixation of laying it on fans is anywhere near justified.

 

[matty1878]

they’re shouldn’t even be any debate on him. sack him and let him go work in st. john’s market selling fish.