2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[Eggsyblueskin]

Yes! That miss must have upset Kevtherat and his mates.

Do you ever post anything that isn’t a sneer at other posters who don’t share your opinion?
You seem to add little to any discussion other than second rate sarcasm.
I await with bated breath a discursive post anaylising the current managers tactics and the reason you have faith in them,

 

[banno]

Having had fourteen games experience of him I cannot disagree more with this.

I know one of them was injured, but if Simms or Dobbin had those fourteen games I think we'd have more points, and they'd have scored / set up more than Rondon does. We sacrifice so much to accomodate his immobility up front and it manifestly isn't worth it.

You do know Simms was unavailable until very recently. I am not defending Rondon here but he came to us totally unfit and not expecting to be put in the deep end so early. DCL injured gave us the choice of Dobbin or Rondon. It made sense to go with Rondon due to experience but his fitness levels held him back. TBH all 3 of them (as they are now) shouldn't be getting a game but we have no choice now. Personally I would still go with Rondon for an hour then give simms/dobbin 30 minutes to accustomise and get a feel of what is required against PL defenders. For me it should be bits and pieces this season for the kids. When DCL is back then stick with the kids being back up and phase Rondon out

 

[tsubaki]

You do know Simms was unavailable until very recently. I am not defending Rondon here but he came to us totally unfit and not expecting to be put in the deep end so early. DCL injured gave us the choice of Dobbin or Rondon. It made sense to go with Rondon due to experience but his fitness levels held him back. TBH all 3 of them (as they are now) shouldn't be getting a game but we have no choice now. Personally I would still go with Rondon for an hour then give simms/dobbin 30 minutes to accustomise and get a feel of what is required against PL defenders. For me it should be bits and pieces this season for the kids. When DCL is back then stick with the kids being back up and phase Rondon out

"I know one of them was injured", so yes.

As for the rest, for the reasons already described I disagree. The effective way in which we play at our best (as seen at the start of the season and vs Arsenal) relies on three fast forwards interchanging, making runs etc with supporting runs from midfield. Dobbin can play as part of that, as can Simms.

We cannot play like that with Rondon, even a fully fit Rondon because he isn't quick enough. So we revert to a variation of 4-5-1, aiming aerial stuff at him which has never worked consistently (even with Lukaku at his prime).

 

[banno]

"I know one of them was injured", so yes.

As for the rest, for the reasons already described I disagree. The effective way in which we play at our best (as seen at the start of the season and vs Arsenal) relies on three fast forwards interchanging, making runs etc with supporting runs from midfield. Dobbin can play as part of that, as can Simms.

We cannot play like that with Rondon, even a fully fit Rondon because he isn't quick enough. So we revert to a variation of 4-5-1, aiming aerial stuff at him which has never worked consistently (even with Lukaku at his prime).

I see where you are coming from but you are also talking as if Simms and Dobbin are experienced and will slot in and start banging goals in for fun. Thet are as raw as can be and that for me puts my case forward of bits and pieces games. Introduce bit by bit and like Gordon we hopefully see progress

 

[Ghost Rider]

Having had fourteen games experience of him I cannot disagree more with this.

I know one of them was injured, but if Simms or Dobbin had those fourteen games I think we'd have more points, and they'd have scored / set up more than Rondon does. We sacrifice so much to accomodate his immobility up front and it manifestly isn't worth it.

Or we play to that tactic and his ability is the only sticking point?

Would rondon from 5 years ago be as bad for us?

It's obvious we are playing to a target man and Dobbin / Simms can't play that role.

 

[tsubaki]

I see where you are coming from but you are also talking as if Simms and Dobbin are experienced and will slot in and start banging goals in for fun. Thet are as raw as can be and that for me puts my case forward of bits and pieces games. Introduce bit by bit and like Gordon we hopefully see progress

Again, I don’t think that is necessarily true - the point with playing three like that is that they are all potential threats so the defence has to try to cope with all of them. Even if Simms or Dobbin don’t score they will make it easier for Richy or Gray (or Gordon) to have an impact. Grays goals during the first few games were an especially good example of this; the defences were focusing on DCL and Richy which created the space for him.

With Rondon / any target man though it is a lot easier to stop, as we’ve seen as infinitum these past years.

 

[tsubaki]

Or we play to that tactic and his ability is the only sticking point?

Would rondon from 5 years ago be as bad for us?

It's obvious we are playing to a target man and Dobbin / Simms can't play that role.

Yes - playing with a target man is the problem, and has been for some time (certainly pre-Benitez).

How many successful club sides across Europe play in that way (4-5-1) nowadays?

 

[banno]

Again, I don’t think that is necessarily true - the point with playing three like that is that they are all potential threats so the defence has to try to cope with all of them. Even if Simms or Dobbin don’t score they will make it easier for Richy or Gray (or Gordon) to have an impact. Grays goals during the first few games were an especially good example of this; the defences were focusing on DCL and Richy which created the space for him.

With Rondon / any target man though it is a lot easier to stop, as we’ve seen as infinitum these past years.

Rondon would have been a so called target man as DCL is. It hasn't worked due to Rondon being unfit and not very good. Now you want to play an alien system to us with rookies leading the line. That just doesn't make any sense to me. Simms and Dobbin are not PL players and only Simms proved himself eventually as a league 1 player. They are players that may graduate but not take a leading role. Obviously we have our different opinions which is fine but looks like we will never be in agreement. We all have different takes on things and it is the managers take that is the important one and the only one that counts. Who is this world agrees with the clubs manager? Not many

 

[tsubaki]

Rondon would have been a so called target man as DCL is. It hasn't worked due to Rondon being unfit and not very good. Now you want to play an alien system to us with rookies leading the line. That just doesn't make any sense to me. Simms and Dobbin are not PL players and only Simms proved himself eventually as a league 1 player. They are players that may graduate but not take a leading role. Obviously we have our different opinions which is fine but looks like we will never be in agreement. We all have different takes on things and it is the managers take that is the important one and the only one that counts. Who is this world agrees with the clubs manager? Not many

it isn't an alien system to us - that is how we played in the first few weeks; its how we will play when DCL comes back

 

[Misa]

Yes - playing with a target man is the problem, and has been for some time (certainly pre-Benitez).

How many successful club sides across Europe play in that way (4-5-1) nowadays?

Ya man. That's why Everton turned down the chance to sign Erling Haaland. Sell DCL next, nobody needs a target man striker. Chelsea will win nothing with Lukaku just like Inter Milan. Fully agree and wiser words has never been spoken. High five!

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yes - playing with a target man is the problem, and has been for some time (certainly pre-Benitez).

How many successful club sides across Europe play in that way (4-5-1) nowadays?

It goes part and parcel with the idea that benitez is much the same way as Jose, old fashioned.

Which is a shame as we have the players to play a more modern system, even if we aren't as good as others at doing it.

 

[banno]

it isn't an alien system to us - that is how we played in the first few weeks; its how we will play when DCL comes back

DCL is a target man....don't kid yourself

 

[tsubaki]

Ya man. That's why Everton turned down the chance to sign Erling Haaland. Sell DCL next, nobody needs a target man striker. Chelsea will win nothing with Lukaku just like Inter Milan. Fully agree and wiser words has never been spoken. High five!

Chelsea won the European Cup last year without Lukaku, and Lukaku didn't really play as a target man last year for Inter. Dortmund haven't won anything (except cup competitions) with Haaland, and don't play 4-5-1 anyway.

So well done, high five etc

 

[sageyefc]

DCL is a target man....don't kid yourself

In name yes but they play it worlds apart, he’s actually mobile and athletic so can occupy a defender and get on the end of long punts, rondon might aswell be having a lie down in the centre circle most of the time

 

[tsubaki]

DCL is a target man....don't kid yourself

he is much better working with others and moving about a lot (just as Lukaku was and is, and Haaland is), not just being the target for long balls which he wins / knocks down