Relegation 2022/23

[davek]

5 points is doable. Draws at Leicester and Wolves and win against Bournemouth.

A point away is the height of expectation for this team.

A win tomorrow night moves the dial but I just don't see it, and I think it's feasible we lose one of the games against Leicester/Wolves.

I see four points for us which will not be sufficient.

4 points might be all we need if Leeds and Forest's next games dont see them win.

I just dont see an awful lot there for either of them in their remaining games after those.

If we won tomorrow I'd be inclined to think we'll squeak home maybe before the final game against B'mouth. A draw would allow us a last day opportunity to stay up. That's how much I dont rate Leeds and Forest's chances of more points beyond their next fixtures.

 

[davek]

We’ve seen this before though with Everton - settled 11 has decent run, sustains injuries and / or hits a run of games against so called bigger opposition, but then once back and fit, or once that sequence of games is finished, the results and form continue - it seems to take Everton a long time to then recover…..we don’t have that time. I appreciate Newcastle are third, but they are not all that, just a functional team. We had a night game at Goodison, a initially vocal attendance, with a desperate need to get points (not even going to talk about Fulham) and we come away with nothing and a -3 worse goal difference. The goal they scored from Isaaks run was just a complete joke and as some pundits have called it - embarrassing. I just do n9t share your optimism but hope I am wrong

That massively underestimates the challenge of Newcastle.

In any case, they got their victory by targetting our RB position...as others have in the last few games.

The talk is that Coleman is back, so we should see a strengthening there now.

 

[ForeverEverton]

All ifs and maybes, means absolutely nothing if we dont win at Leicester tomorrow, I don`t think we can. Why do I say that? We won there last season and there is no way Leicester will want to be 50% of Evertons away wins for the last 2 full seasons..... They will remember that....

Not just that but they are scrapping just like we are, its not like they are safe and likely to go through the motions like last season.

A point at best.... they have goals everywhere.

 

[GoldenToffee]

Not for me. I think they squad is a mismatch of players for different systems that can't play as a team. Zero composure or ability to pass the ball well for spells.

Ancelloti knew that and played conservative defensive football. That was always the benchmark for that side.

We cannot attack and defend as a unit. It's one or the other.

These are supposed professional players.

Iwobi didn't look like a non-league player at Arsenal. Sure, he wasn't amazing, but he was useful. As soon as he joined us he looked like he couldn't kick a ball.

Gueye was that good for us that PSG signed him. He's not finished now, but appears to have left his brain in Paris.

Maupay consistently scored 8-10 per season for Brighton, joins us and cannot even shout.

Tarkowski cannot pass a ball, Mykolenko is apparently the best left back from the huge country of Ukraine, but could easily pass for a Sunday League player in the UK.

That's just a few off the top of my head. You cannot account for players turning into quivering messes and shadows of their former once okay selves.

They spend 5-6 days a week training together (or at least having a laugh and doing piggy backs for the cameras), I think that's enough to establish some kind of minimum understanding that allows them to pass a ball around on a match day.

 

[Blue peter]

That massively underestimates the challenge of Newcastle.

In any case, they got their victory by targetting our RB position...as others have in the last few games.

The talk is that Coleman is back, so we should see a strengthening there now.

Maybe I have been too reductive in describing them a functional team, but irrespective of injuries I don‘t think we can so easily explain away the prior home game vs Fulham - a team with Mitrovic out, with nothing to play for (some posters seem to think those games are normally 3 points in the bag) and on a terrible run of form, this and Newcastle are the issues for me. I think in the fullness of time - we will come to realise how costly that Doucoure sending off was. Anyway enough moping from me - I sincerely your more nuanced view of it, is correct. I just can’t be arsed trying to closely read the tea leaves anymore p.s I’ll be back bouncing if we win tomorrow night

 

[kenada_blue]

These are supposed professional players.

Iwobi didn't look like a non-league player at Arsenal. Sure, he wasn't amazing, but he was useful. As soon as he joined us he looked like he couldn't kick a ball.

Gueye was that good for us that PSG signed him. He's not finished now, but appears to have left his brain in Paris.

Maupay consistently scored 8-10 per season for Brighton, joins us and cannot even shout.

Tarkowski cannot pass a ball, Mykolenko is apparently the best left back from the huge country of Ukraine, but could easily pass for a Sunday League player in the UK.

That's just a few off the top of my head. You cannot account for players turning into quivering messes and shadows of their former once okay selves.

They spend 5-6 days a week training together (or at least having a laugh and doing piggy backs for the cameras), I think that's enough to establish some kind of minimum understanding that allows them to pass a ball around on a match day.

You've proven my point though. Functional players in a team.

Those clubs mentioned are very good teams with a squad of player who fit that team.

Maupay works if you play his way
Iwobi works if you play to his strengths.
Gana plays well if you play to his strengths....

Etc etc. That's not a team.

There's not one player in that squad that was brought in to help play a certain way to then get the best out or benefit another.

Jags and Distin/Lescott. Partnership.
Baines and Pienaar
Cahill/Lukaku/Saha

As example of one helping the other as a team.

 

[Blue peter]

I’ve got an Everton tattoo right down the shaft of my love length, that’s how much of a supabloo I am

I have the word ‘Everton fc - established 1878, formerly known and St Domingos fc’ on mine

 

[davek]

Maybe I have been too reductive in describing them a functional team, but irrespective of injuries I don‘t think we can so easily explain away the prior home game vs Fulham - a team with Mitrovic out, with nothing to play for (some posters seem to think those games are normally 3 points in the bag) and on a terrible run of form, this and Newcastle are the issues for me. I think in the fullness of time - we will come to realise how costly that Doucoure sending off was. Anyway enough moping from me - I sincerely your more nuanced view of it, is correct. I just can’t be arsed trying to closely read the tea leaves anymore p.s I’ll be back bouncing if we win tomorrow night

Fulham, like Newcastle, are a much better team than us. To stand any chance against teams like those we need our preferred starting line up out on the pitch. In none of the last 4 have we had that. When we did have them starting we beat much better teams than us in the shape of Arsenal and Brentford.

 

[USABlue]

You've proven my point though. Functional players in a team.

Those clubs mentioned are very good teams with a squad of player who fit that team.

Maupay works if you play his way
Iwobi works if you play to his strengths.
Gana plays well if you play to his strengths....

Etc etc. That's not a team.

There's not one player in that squad that was brought in to help play a certain way to then get the best out or benefit another.

Jags and Distin/Lescott. Partnership.
Baines and Pienaar
Cahill/Lukaku/Saha

As example of one helping the other as a team.

Yup we have a disastrous mixture of players left over from multiple managers who all had different plans for the team. Doesn't help we had to sell richy to balance the books and replaced him with McNeil and Maupay. Those signings illustrate your point as well (ie. If our plan was for McNeil to come in to whip in crosses for DCL then what's the point of signing Maupay who wouldn't be able to fill the same role as DCL?)

 

[GoldenToffee]

You've proven my point though. Functional players in a team.

Those clubs mentioned are very good teams with a squad of player who fit that team.

Maupay works if you play his way
Iwobi works if you play to his strengths.
Gana plays well if you play to his strengths....

Etc etc. That's not a team.

There's not one player in that squad that was brought in to help play a certain way to then get the best out or benefit another.

Jags and Distin/Lescott. Partnership.
Baines and Pienaar
Cahill/Lukaku/Saha

As example of one helping the other as a team.

I hear you, but I think most managers ought to be getting more out of what we've got.

I know once you have a decent core you can then plug in the gaps, but we do have at least some decent players, all of whom are being horribly mismanaged by a manager that thinks he's far better than he actually is.

This squad is crap, granted, and should and will be relegated, but I think a decent manager doesn't see us lose 9 home games by May. Leeds are every bit as bad as us and have only lost 6 at home.

And yes we definitely do have an utterly woeful mix of rejects left behind by previous managers, that cannot be denied.

 

[Neiler]

That massively underestimates the challenge of Newcastle.

In any case, they got their victory by targetting our RB position...as others have in the last few games.

The talk is that Coleman is back, so we should see a strengthening there now.

Seamus being out is pretty much a large part of the reason, we got nothing from Fulham or Newcastle, everything came down that right side - its a very good point mate.

 

[Wat Tyler]

I don’t think we can underestimate how important the Leeds game today is to our survival. We desperately need them to not win.

 

[davek]

I dont think it can be overestimated how important this Leeds game is today. If they get nothing there I'd say that they're locked into a final day struggle with us...same with Forest if they dont take all three points next week against S'ton.

I suspect we wouldn't have to win another point before B'mouth final day to get that chance.

 

[Blue peter]

Seamus being out is pretty much a large part of the reason, we got nothing from Fulham or Newcastle, everything came down that right side - its a very good point mate.

It may have been in terms of conceding the goals and contributing to a lack of defensive stability but doesn’t explain away our inability to be creative, to fashion chances, to score goals to win games.

 

[Neiler]

It may have been in terms of conceding the goals and contributing to a lack of defensive stability but doesn’t explain away our inability to be creative, to fashion chances, to score goals to win games.

TBF Seamus gives you an overload and a bit of penetration and allows the winger to come inside, Godfrey im really disappointed in - i suspect hes in for size and pace, particularly to break a line or create an overload - neither of which hes used or done well in the chance hes been given. Been very disappointed in him and id be one of his biggest backers on here.