Remembering Moyes

[Ihaters]

Moyes never would have beat arsenal yesterday, even if they played that bad, because the way we'd set up with him in charge would most definitely invited them back into the game.

I've heard all season about games Moyes definately wouldn't of won, including games he had 100% win records in, but its hard to argue on this one.
And even if he did win it somehow, its almost certain we wouldn't of taken them apart in even remotely the same dominating way as we did yesterday. Its not fact we wouldn't of won, nor is it fact we wouldn't of won 3-0, but its probably as close to fact as a hypothetical can get.

 

[Ihaters]

Well, Martinez hasn't even spent the Fellaini money yet.

I'd agree with a lot of what you say, Moyes was an above average manager and that was certainly enough when he arrived. as a club, in terms of potential, Everton were in a false position then and stability was required to move back up the table.

He was the right man for the job, then.

Equally, Everton was very good for him and he was very lucky in that respect. He got two things most managers crave, time and control.

He wouldn't have got 2 seasons out of Newcastle, Spurs or Villa. They wouldn't have tolerated his style or the half season syndrome his teams are prone to. They won't tolerate it at UTD either. Not saying sacking managers is the way to go, long may they continue with this as it plays into our hands. He'll likely find this out when he gets tossed by Man U and spends a season or two at one of the aforementioned.

Plenty of good managers have got the boot prematurely when a bit of time could have seen them right. Everton chose stability and that's a big part of Moyes 'success' and reputation.

He got two of the four things managers crave... Your missing money and not having to sell your players, and no amount of time makes up for that, it just makes it harder when everyone else is getting better and you are having replace your replacements with a cheaper but superior players just to stay still, let alone improve.

He also earnt his time here by finishing in positions we spent most of the decade before not even getting close to. Everton were not in a false position, they were exactly where they should of been, we were absolutely dire and heading backwards. No way were we even close to being a European fighting prospect when Moyes arrived.

 

[mawders]

I agree with all of the above, apart from the bit about Royle being better than Moyes. That FA Cup win and beating the RS a lot does tend to conceal other, quite serious, flaws.

not really. Royle was a great manager. He got the best out of very average players, injected passion and spirit and for a year had us playing some really great stuff. Importantly, he aimed to make us the best, regardless of whether than was a pipe dream or not. And, he bought Earl Barret, the best defensive RB this club has ever had

 

[toffee matt]

not really. Royle was a great manager. He got the best out of very average players, injected passion and spirit and for a year had us playing some really great stuff. Importantly, he aimed to make us the best, regardless of whether than was a pipe dream or not. And, he bought Earl Barret, the best defensive RB this club has ever had

If moyes had won the cup I think he'd be regarded up their with royle but he didn't so he won't be

 

[mawders]

If moyes had won the cup I think he'd be regarded up their with royle but he didn't so he won't be

Because he ALWAYS bottled it and this fed into the players.

Anyway, Moyes is someone else's problem now

 

[Muzumbu]

For me Moyes was the manager that while he may never go down as an Everton "great" he certainly changed the club for the better. He turned us into a stable mid-table club, pushing for Europe on occasions and we did get close to silverware. I'm sure we all love to poke fun at Moyes, but we can't forget what he did for us.

 

[Allezfan]

not really. Royle was a great manager. He got the best out of very average players, injected passion and spirit and for a year had us playing some really great stuff. Importantly, he aimed to make us the best, regardless of whether than was a pipe dream or not. And, he bought Earl Barret, the best defensive RB this club has ever had

He was a superb manager.

But I do think, to play devil's advocate, there is an argument to be made that we as fans, focus entirely on his first two seasons, when we finished 6th and won an fa cup and not on the third season where we lost to york city and were pretty godawful.

I think personally, the highs far outweigh the lows, but there were lows.

 

[nigelcoyb]

He got two of the four things managers crave... Your missing money and not having to sell your players,

He also earnt his time here by finishing in positions we spent most of the decade before not even getting close to. Everton were not in a false position, they were exactly where they should of been, we were absolutely dire and heading backwards. No way were we even close to being a European fighting prospect when Moyes arrived.

He had enough money to do what he did especially when you look where our wages put us and he had Rooney. .

I'd take the squad he inherited to fight relegation any time any place over any team that's been relegated during Moyes tenure. Our problem was we were an unstable big club under Walter and Johnson aspiring to compete but making a pills of it.

Under the watch of Moyes and Kenwright we gained stability but the cost was a drift into small club status existing in the division was enough - scandalous imo.

The biggest example is 11 years and no trophies later some still refer to "relegation battles" as though that defines this remarkable club .... 11 fookin' years???

Well on our way to being Sunderland we were.

 

[Goat]

I think you need to look back at the squad Moyes inherited and compare it to the squad he left.

We wouldnt be on the cusp of something special without Moyes, but by the same token, we wouldnt be as close if he had stayed.

 

[Rupert's Tower]

Royal was better than Moyes
Kendall was better than Moyes
Neither of these things makes Moyes a bad manager, just the other 2 were superb.

Martinez got an equal Fellaini size leg up, so what? Doesn't make him any less of a manager does it?

Moyes was the man who built a quality team from the scraps of the big spending behemoths, and took that team of misfits, freebies and lucky dips, and shoved it in the leagues faces by being the first to break into the top 4, a feat that has been replicated by only two teams, Spurs and City and what did they do to acheive that? spend big, big money over a prolonged period.

Sure if you forget the team he inherrited, the relegation battles we were in previously, the one goal from going down x 2 of the decade before and the mindset instilled by that, the lack of money, that lack of quality and the impact of losing your best striker to United after both the player and the chairman had told the world and the players that he wouldn't be going, and you incorrectly assumed Moyes took over a team from the 80's, he was pretty average, poor in fact... but that is not the truth of the matter.

Look at it objectively and he did a great job and laid some very hard to build foundations for Martinez to take over and turn into the Everton we all love but maybe started to forget over these last 30 years.

What is Moyes? A great builder of great teams without the tactical nouse to utilitise them to their fullest, a manager who pulled us back from the brink of disaster and pushed us to the brink of success whilst not quite having the mental strength to push hard enough to acheive it.

Was 4th an acheivement? Of course it was, the domination of the big teams was absolute when Moyes did it, to ignore this shows a deep lack of genuine perspective, or a wilfully impossed ignorance. Someone else getting 4th wasn't even considered at the time, let alone us with our Blue and White Tecos value team.

ps Neither Villa, Newcastle or Spurs have done anything like as well as Moyes did over that time period so its kind of understandable that Moyes gets more praise, considering they spent a load more money and started with superior teams and fluked going above us once, whereas we beat them season after season I would say its completely obvious that Moyes and Everton were superior. Also finishing top 10 is not what we did, we had a series of results between 8th and 4th barring two poor seasons. So yeah again, why would you expect Villa to get praise if they finished 10th?

That's without mentioning that he bought Coleman which is an argument winner in its own right to be fair.

Brilliant post

I fell out of love with Moyes long before he left but this obsession our fans still have with him, singing silly songs about him at games is just pure cringe worthy. It is either ignorance on mass scale or just plane stupidity to not accept or realise Moyes was a fantastic manager for us taking everything into consideration, he clearly laid the foundations for what Martinez has achieved and will no doubt achieve in the future. If we make 4th this season, it won't be down to Moyes because Bobby has taken us to another level but it shouldn't be forgotten Baines, Coleman, Stones, etc. were signed by Moyes

 

[messymascot]

Royle was unlucky he was building a team that was in contention but then got injuries to Parkinson and Hinchcliffe and we only had a small squad and them two players were key to the system. Kanchelskis also had his head turned so we dropped from a team looking at top 6 to relegation scrappers so I remember him as a good manager.

Moyes should have left in 2010 after we finished 8th you could see his heart was no longer in it after the Lescott fiasco. He was a good manager to steady the ship but always took the safe option and that is why he never won anything. Overall I thought he was above average but Martinez is the man to take us to top of the class!

 

[Zodiak2]

I think you need to look back at the squad Moyes inherited and compare it to the squad he left.

We wouldnt be on the cusp of something special without Moyes, but by the same token, we wouldnt be as close if he had stayed.

Perfectly put spot on.

 

[Kev The Rat]

Moyes should have and was in fact under threat of being sacked at the end of 2003-2004 season. Rooney had not progressed we had gone backwards as a team. Instead he stayed got us to the CL by a miracle and we were forced to watch 9 further years of treading water without playing particularly attractive football.

 

[Allezfan]

The thing is Walter Smith, despite some of our fans bizarre defense of him, was an utterly terrible manager.

God awful, and we weren't doing half as well as we should have done under Smith.

Moyes being quite a good manager was an improvement and fair play to him, he left the club in a much better place then he found it. But he seemed a lot better than he was cos Smith was so clueless.

Martinez and Smith together place Moyes exactly where he should be. Miles better than a bad manager, not as good as an elite one.

 

[toffee matt]

Moyes should have and was in fact under threat of being sacked at the end of 2003-2004 season. Rooney had not progressed we had gone backwards as a team. Instead he stayed got us to the CL by a miracle and we were forced to watch 9 further years of treading water without playing particularly attractive football.

At the time moyes should have been sacked but looking back it would have been a stupid decision